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Old February 10th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #761
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Originally Posted by Balmurfan View Post
Unfortunalty this article doesn't provide us with reasons potential convention booking are down. It used to be the fact that there was no convention center hotel. Now that one is being built you would think things would start picking up. .... Anyone have any ideas as to why bookings aren't picking up and how we can address this issue so that this hotel doesn't become a white elephant.
Given that someone recently stated they heard rumors the construction was way behind schedule, I wonder if that is impacted sales at all. I would imagine, if they are unable to convince potential conferences that they will be ready for them, it would cause some hesitation for booking.
Also, in my opinion, 2008 has no relation to the hilton since even if its done on time, it won't be until late 4th qtr so any lack of bookings is completely unrelated. Someone should figure out why booking rates are down though.... maybe its because maryland hates business? They must be all booking in Charlotte....(sorry, couldn't resist).
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Old February 10th, 2007, 05:00 AM   #762
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While I get your hint of sarcasm toward Harlem, I think the city is a bit anti-business because of the high tax rate, which is much lower in Virginia. That said, I'm not saying the sky is falling or going to exaggerate things either. Baltimore is greatly improving, and much still must be done to continue to elevate our status.

It's going to be interesting because we are hitting a bit of a building lull right now. Zenith and Water Tower are almost done, Hilton should be rising soon. Nothing else is really breaking ground (I'm talking high-density projects). You wonder if there may be a flood of them a year and a half or two years from now, or maybe not. I'm excited to see things get started though.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:12 AM   #763
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Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
What does everybody think of the BDC "quick take" ruling?

It might slow development, but it's the right thing. This is America after all.

Nate
I don't see the quickness as the issue so much as the reasons for the take. Theoretically eminent domain is supposed to be in the public interest, but in recent years, there have been many cases where public interest was interpreted as being equivalent to developer interest. It's an interesting legal issue. Does government have the right to take property because they think it's ugly? No doubt that vacant smashed up buildings should go, but what about "bad taste" and what about takes based on nothing but a proposed bigger building? There have been some cases where functional properties were taken only because a developer wanted to build something bigger, more profitable. I presume that it will take legislation and supreme court decisions before we see some guidance on this.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:17 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by Balmurfan View Post
Unfortunalty this article doesn't provide us with reasons potential convention booking are down. It used to be the fact that there was no convention center hotel. Now that one is being built you would think things would start picking up. Maybe that won't happen until the hotel is finished.....
The people who promote the convention hosting business have to be optomists. The reality is that conventions are generally down in recent years and there are more cities that have banked their prosperity on attracting conventions. As companies have tightened their operations the old practice of the big, unproductive, heavy drinking conventions has diminished. Teleconferencing and webcasts have increased. Conventions seem to be like Christmas sales projections...the expectations are too high and disappointment is inevitable. Now that we are committed, I just hope that this monster hotel (the site really IS BIG) at least pays off its debt.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:59 AM   #765
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I wish I can answer your questions Balmurfan, but I'm sure there can be a number of reasons. I just don't understand why there are so many conventions that come to various cities in the U.S. but skip Baltimore. The city council as well as Governor O'Malley knew that there were risks regarding the project. What they teach us in business is in order to maximize your future rewards you have to take greater risks. This hotel was one of those risks; a multi-million dollar risk. Hopefully, we can rejoice and relax when the hotel is built with reserved conventions booked 10 years in advance. Then, everyone here can go to an O's game and pray for a victory.
There are two factors at play regarding convention center bookings: hotel size, and the convention center itself.

The hotel should have been built in the 1400-1800 room range. At the time the "convention center hotel" question was initially raised, studies indicated a hotel in the 1200-1600 range would best suit the facility, but was later reduced due to concern of overestimating the perceived need.

Of course we all remember how the hotel issue was resolved: we built our hotel one mile east of the convention center at Harbor East...

When "round two" of the convention center hotel discussions began (Sheraton site vs. Lots A&B) industry analysts once again stated a true convention center hotel ought to be in the 1000-1500 room range. However, existing downtown hotels (rightfully so) expressed concern yet another hotel that large would hurt the overall hotel market by driving overall occupancy way down, and ultimately creating economic hardship for existing hotels. One study in particular (I think it was conducted by Legg Mason?) predicted that upwards of two downtown hotels would be driven out of business.

Another factor that has hampered the center is not marketing, but the design of the facility. When the expansion for the existing center was planned and budgeted, the economy (both nationally and state-wise) were in a shambles. I think the Maryland Stadium Authority would have proposed a much larger facility, and a different alignment had the economy been better. Their concern was the circa $200 million Annapolis funding, and they ended up accepting the funding without exception. Had the economy been better, there is a definite possibility the convention center would have been built elsewhere, or if not, much larger and with a more suitable floor area.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 08:44 AM   #766
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Originally Posted by waj0527 View Post
Ok...pts official:

I'm officially annoyed by Harlem87. The moderator has to do something about him. He adds nothing but strife and nonsensical comments to the board. I'm sure the former is a violation of SSC's TOS.

I'm not saying he/she should be banned, but someone needs to tighten his/her leash.

Would JasonHouse handle something like this? Someone needs to get involved.

I'm more than able to handle change, but his/her presence has affected the quality of this board.

I come here because I enjoy the quality discussion and because, until recently, I haven't had to deal with the nonsense that goes on over on the sports board I frequent.

We're adults here. We should all act like it. I really hope this silly behavior leaves our board before things go terribly wrong.
Ya see one thing that is present in this Country is FREEDOM OF SPEACH.

I'm not saying that my words are gospel but I know the I have the right to express my views and concerns about the lack of Business/Economic/Revenue support for Maryland.

Its very simple; If you don't like what I have to say, Just skip through my post.

Its very possible that you have issues with what I have to say because you know deep down that I am telling the truth.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 10:46 AM   #767
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You are correct Harlem, you are protected by freedom of speech. But, you have to understand that our rights are limited under certain circumstances. When you intentionally use your limited rights to disrupt our civil conversations you are doing exactly what you're currently advocating against. I want you to read this from the NASF forum rules...

"Personal attacks, Trolling, Flaming, overt negativity, baiting, etc. This rule is especially applicative of forumers who hijack or troll a thread/local forum, basically just to bash the topic or participants of the thread/local forum.

Please remember, this site exists for folks to enjoy and educate themselves about the USA's and Canada's cities and urban environments. Both SSC and NASF are online communities, and just like in real life, everyone has to work to 'govern' themselves. The staff has dedicated themselves to making this an enjoyable and enriching experience for our members, and only ask that our members work together to keep this place harmonious and successful."


From what I see, the demeanor of this forum has changed since you've brought your negativity here. There's a way to disagree without putting down the poster or his/her intelligence. I personally believe that your rants on Atlanta, Charlotte, NOVA, Houston and others should be discussed on their forums not ours. If you don't like the way you're disregarded here, leave. You, as well as the frequent posters here will be better off.

Good morning everyone!!!!
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Old February 10th, 2007, 01:58 PM   #768
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Harbor Point will break ground this April/May

Baltimore Business Journal reported Struever/Paterakis will break ground this spring on 350 residential units(150 will be condo's) and a 250,000 sq ft office building. The article is in the Journal that came out yesterday.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #769
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Awesome news! Can't wait for the construction activity to get going there.
Thanks for the report, fanofterps.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 04:45 PM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmore87 View Post
You are correct Harlem, you are protected by freedom of speech. But, you have to understand that our rights are limited under certain circumstances. When you intentionally use your limited rights to disrupt our civil conversations you are doing exactly what you're currently advocating against. I want you to read this from the NASF forum rules...

"Personal attacks, Trolling, Flaming, overt negativity, baiting, etc. This rule is especially applicative of forumers who hijack or troll a thread/local forum, basically just to bash the topic or participants of the thread/local forum.

Please remember, this site exists for folks to enjoy and educate themselves about the USA's and Canada's cities and urban environments. Both SSC and NASF are online communities, and just like in real life, everyone has to work to 'govern' themselves. The staff has dedicated themselves to making this an enjoyable and enriching experience for our members, and only ask that our members work together to keep this place harmonious and successful."


From what I see, the demeanor of this forum has changed since you've brought your negativity here. There's a way to disagree without putting down the poster or his/her intelligence. I personally believe that your rants on Atlanta, Charlotte, NOVA, Houston and others should be discussed on their forums not ours. If you don't like the way you're disregarded here, leave. You, as well as the frequent posters here will be better off.

Good morning everyone!!!!
Very profesionally and politely said. Bravo. Very good instruction/direction.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #771
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City's 'Hotel Row' growing
One East Redwood to combine old, new Baltimore
By Jill Rosen
Sun reporter
Originally published February 10, 2007

First it was to be apartments, then condominiums and now it looks like a $25 million hotel is in the works for a prime downtown corner.

Developers behind One East Redwood, an elaborate melding of three radically different buildings at South Charles and Redwood streets, say they're adapting their plans to accommodate changing market forces.

"With the condo market softening, the opportunity opened for a hotel," said Crispin Etherington, one of the partners behind Charles Redwood Group LLC. "The hotels we're talking to both want to be in our location."

The project would be the latest in a spate of planned downtown hotels - including the city's own convention center Hilton - that will soon be competing for tourist and convention dollars.

Plans for One East Redwood have been in the works for nearly four years, moving in fits and starts as the developers considered and reconsidered how best to use the high-profile spot in the heart of the central business district just across the street from the old Mechanic Theatre.

A year and a half ago the developers got permission from the city to merge 15, 17 and 19 S. Charles St. At the time, the idea was to build 93 condominiums, joining a surge of residential development downtown.

Before that, the developers intended to move ahead with a 58-unit apartment building.

But now, they say, a 196-room hotel seems like the way to go.

"Look at how the whole area's changed," Etherington said. "But really it could be a condo or apartments or a hotel or an office - any service use because it's such a great location."

Etherington recently brought his new plans before Baltimore's Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel. Because the board granted the project preliminary approval, the developer hopes to be able to begin construction this year.

Architect Walter Schamu of Schamu Machowski Greco told the panel how the plan would combine the historic building at 15 S. Charles St. with a modern building that would rise beside and then wrap over it.

The five-story, red-brick corner building, a former dry goods warehouse, was constructed just after the Great Fire of 1904 by the same architect who designed the Mitchell Courthouse.

The plan would preserve the whole building, not just the facade. The other two buildings, which are not historic, would be demolished.

"We do as much as we can to glorify the corner building," Schamu said. "We polish and really emboss this corner, then we go into the new architecture."

Aside from some retail on the ground floor, the buildings are vacant.



Showing interest
Hotels are showing more interest in the central business district than they did four years ago, said Kirby Fowler, who is president of the Downtown Partnership.

Fowler suspects the industry is anticipating overflow business from Baltimore's under-construction convention center hotel. City leaders hope that the publicly financed $301 million Hilton, expected to open in the summer of 2008, will lure more convention business.



In addition to the Hilton, the hotel at Redwood and Charles - Etherington declined to name the brands he is negotiating with - is just one of a few planned or under construction downtown.



A 'hot item'
In fact, Fowler said, Downtown Partnership has begun calling Redwood Street "Hotel Row."
However, Fowler does not fear downtown is on the verge of becoming over-hoteled. "Right now hotels seem to be the hot item downtown," he said.

A Red Roof Inn is planned for Saratoga Street and Park Avenue, an extended stay hotel is in the works for Charles and Fayette streets, and at the intersection of Calvert and Redwood streets hotels are rising on two corners - another extended-stay establishment and a boutique inn called Hotel Indigo.



"These are all saving historic properties. too," Fowler said. "With reports of some downtown historic properties jeopardized, it's nice to see many other projects downtown where historic properties are being rejuvenated."



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Old February 10th, 2007, 05:28 PM   #772
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Very profesionally and politely said. Bravo. Very good .
......giving instruction/direction is one thing. him/her following it is another. i'm actually giving him/her the benefit of the doubt by saying this, but i believe everyone's entitled to a change. let's wait & see and hope for the best.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 05:51 PM   #773
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Good morning everyone!!!!
by the way, good mornin'. and well-said

Last edited by MasonsInquiries; February 10th, 2007 at 06:02 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 06:00 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
City's 'Hotel Row' growing
One East Redwood to combine old, new Baltimore
By Jill Rosen
Sun reporter
Originally published February 10, 2007

First it was to be apartments, then condominiums and now it looks like a $25 million hotel is in the works for a prime downtown corner.

Developers behind One East Redwood, an elaborate melding of three radically different buildings at South Charles and Redwood streets, say they're adapting their plans to accommodate changing market forces.



this is good news. i've always thought alot of this project. glad to see that 5-story red brick building get resurrected.

alot of the older buildings here with hotels in them have been preserved very nicely. I stayed at the hampton inn & suites that's in that old banking building on redwood street and that place is GORGEOUS; expensive, but gorgeous......lol.

Last edited by MasonsInquiries; February 10th, 2007 at 06:26 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #775
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I agree

This project and a nice Mechanic rehab project across the street would be great for the area. I believe David Brown is involved in the Mechanic project now. Brown owns Lockwood Place(where Best Buy and the future Filene's are).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries View Post



this is good news. i've always thought alot of this project. glad to see that 5-story red brick building get resurrected.

alot of the older buildings here with hotels in them have been preserved very nicely. I stayed at the hampton inn & suites that's in that old banking building on redwood street and that place is GORGEOUS; expensive, but gorgeous......lol.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:31 PM   #776
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Thanks for the update, fanofterps. Whatever happened to the concerns that Harbor Point wasn't fit for residential?
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #777
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By the way, I had the opportunity to speak with none other than Robert A.M. Stern this morning. As the architect for my university's new law building, he was a guest at the building's dedication ceremony this morning. While everyone else was crowding Justice Ginsburg, who was the keynote speaker, I took the opportunity to approach Robert Stern and try to get some information out of him about 10 Inner Harbor. He wasn't interested in divulging any new information to me, but he did hint that we should be seeing the new design shortly.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #778
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Sounds good.

Can't wait to see it, too.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 08:40 PM   #779
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I believe the artice

did not mention the unfit residential piece. I believe a portion of Harbor Point was not contaminated and this is where the residential is?

The office building will include a large resturaunt and the residential space will include fashion and other retail which would add to Fells Point.

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Thanks for the update, fanofterps. Whatever happened to the concerns that Harbor Point wasn't fit for residential?
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Old February 10th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #780
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http://www.michaelgraves.com/files/a...1baltimore.pdf
Click on it.
And check out Michael Graves website. It gives the two different projects side by side.
www.michaelgraves.com then hit, "architecture". You'll see the "701 East Baltimore Street" location. Click on it. You'll see 3 different images you can click on.
The two conceptual designs are different in location, that's for sure.
Maybe someone could post the image that has the two towers/concepts side by side.
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