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Old February 16th, 2007, 06:06 AM   #981
Eerik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baltimoreisbest View Post
I was looking over at the commentary on the Legg Mason thread, and in particular office stuff. I think most of downtown's major tenants just signed large leases in the past two years. Vertis, T. Rowe, Stifel, now Legg Mason, and of course, Constellation Energy.

It's possible to fill the building with mid-size law firms, but 23 floors of contiguous space is a lot -- and it's supposed to be a corporate headquarters. With regard to the pull such empty space might exert on traditional CBD properties, I'd expect it to be small. Not to many large operations continue to exist north of Lombard Street, except in the Wachovia and Sun Trust buildings. One Charles Center has the offices of Peter Angelos and a couple law firms, but the rest of the not-vacant space is Hopkins. The Blaustein Building and 201 North Charles have a mixture of private tenants and public or quasi-public tenants. Either way, the amount of vacant space in the Legg Mason building is probably equal to, or exceeds, the amount of office space in both 201 and in the Blaustein.

I think it's likely you'll see an out-of-city tenant come in, or an existing area tenant expand dramatically. Ferris Baker Watts seems like a good bet to me. Don't think this is a free benefit, though. The city will have to pony up money for some improvements and to pay for space modifications. Eerik, as you're really up on these matters, would you mind offering a guess or some reasonable speculation?
I guess Iím in the minority, but my thoughts are that filling 100 Light Street will be tough. Companies in general attempt to reduce overhead, and I donít see that reversing anytime in the future.

As far as I see it, the only two options to reach healthy occupancy levels are either: 1) arrival of a new company onto the downtown scene, or expansion of an existing company(ies), or 2) migration of existing CBD companies into the Legg space.

As noted, large chunks of vacant space exist north of Lombard Street. Hopefully a couple of additional (older) office buildings will be converted to residential. In the last ten years, that movement has definitely helped the downtown market.

But, so far as 100 Light Street goes, I know for a fact the building will be advertised as a major landmark/headquarters building, with naming rights to any company willing to lease +/- 200,000 s/f on a negotiable five to ten year lease.

Since the tower still has a relatively ďfreshĒ patina in terms of updated amenities from the time Legg moved in a handful of years ago, I donít expect to see any major building upgrades with the exception of the parking issue.

Iím trying to think of large downtown leases set to expire in the next couple of years. That should provide some insight. Plus, prestige is important. Keep in mind the Center Club is, and probably will be for the foreseeable, located at 100 Light Street. Only the best of the crop will be able to afford the address.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #982
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Interesting week with LM moving over to Harbor East. I'm curious to know who approached whom on the deal. Either way, it will surely solidify Harbor East's success, it will now be a truely 24 hour area. I'm thinking Struever. I think they realized they needed a different source of income to hedge their bet. This HAS to help Struever gain some leverage when negotiating future leases.

While i'm definitely happy with the deal and believe its good for the city (I just don't see the current Legg Mason tower being that difficult to find tenants for over the course of the next 2 years. It wouldn't floor me if T. Rowe took some additional space, they are at capacity in their current building, and there are only so many jobs that can be done in OM) I wonder if this outcome would have been the same if Mr. Clarke was not the owner of 1 Light St. This would have been a perfect opportunity to really build a signature office tower on that spot and a more reputable owner may have been able to persue LM with a strong proposal. Now I don't see a need for a new, significant, office building for the next 4 or 5 years. Light St will almost certainly need to be a hotel or condo's. This is not a bad thing because it will provide an influx of residents in that part of the city, much has LM will provide an influx of commercial space in Harbor East. Separate 'zones' for living, working, and playing are definitely on the way out, and the LM deal certainly follows the trend.

BTW...why is everyone a little dismayed by the 'Miamification' that the slender glass towers are bringing? All we talk about is how the brick needs to go (or at least temper its pervasivness in the skyline), now the glass is too Miami! Maybe its the balconies?
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Old February 16th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #983
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Those are secondary sources themselves. beyonddc got their number from emporis and emporis relies on people assigned to the cities to make contributions. I'd call the building manager to see if they knew how tall the building was. They or something in the building should know for safety reasons. Even the fire department may know.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #984
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Baltimore is on the move with all the projects coming to the city. Also what's going to happen to the old Legg Mason building when this new tower will move to the Harbor East?
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Old February 16th, 2007, 08:01 AM   #985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries View Post
it is over 400 ft. it's 430 feet, and i got that number from atleast 6 sources. here's 2 of 'em.......

http://www.beyonddc.com/buildings/skyscraperlist.html

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...ltimore-md-usa
I tried to bring this up as a point of contention a few months back and nobody bit. So I'll try again... I looked at the microsoft 3-d images of baltimore and they have a feature where if you put the cursor on any spot on the image it will give you the elevation. Well, I put the cursor on top of most of the tall buildings in the city and EVERY single one came within a small margin of error of whats reported (usually within 3-5 feet). BUT, when I went to the top of the marriott it was significantly less than the sources reported at 430. I don't have the program up now, but I believe it was 358 feet. I found it remarkable that it would be sooo accurate on everything but the marriott. I really found think the 430 is inaccurate to tell you the truth. I thought you guys would have had some opinions, but nobody ever replied...maybe now that the issue is in the forefront, somebody will check it out and see what they think....
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Old February 16th, 2007, 08:42 AM   #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eerik View Post
I guess Iím in the minority, but my thoughts are that filling 100 Light Street will be tough. Companies in general attempt to reduce overhead, and I donít see that reversing anytime in the future.

As far as I see it, the only two options to reach healthy occupancy levels are either: 1) arrival of a new company onto the downtown scene, or expansion of an existing company(ies), or 2) migration of existing CBD companies into the Legg space.

As noted, large chunks of vacant space exist north of Lombard Street. Hopefully a couple of additional (older) office buildings will be converted to residential. In the last ten years, that movement has definitely helped the downtown market.

But, so far as 100 Light Street goes, I know for a fact the building will be advertised as a major landmark/headquarters building, with naming rights to any company willing to lease +/- 200,000 s/f on a negotiable five to ten year lease.

Since the tower still has a relatively ďfreshĒ patina in terms of updated amenities from the time Legg moved in a handful of years ago, I donít expect to see any major building upgrades with the exception of the parking issue.

Iím trying to think of large downtown leases set to expire in the next couple of years. That should provide some insight. Plus, prestige is important. Keep in mind the Center Club is, and probably will be for the foreseeable, located at 100 Light Street. Only the best of the crop will be able to afford the address.
I don't know of any single tenant in the old CBD that leases about 200k square feet. The largest I can think of is Miles & Stockbridge, but that was only for 100 k or so. SunTrust recently renewed, Wachovia probably doesn't have much of a future in Baltimore, and 250 W. Pratt's tenants renewed within the last 18 months -- all on relatively long-term agreements.

The reason I speculated on FBW is that the firm is already situated here (in the Legg Mason building) and in D.C., where higher rents prevail. Perhaps the firm will decide to maintain a smaller D.C. office and consolidate more of its suburban Maryland operations to Baltimore. Of course, they wouldn't take the full 390,000 k sq ft vacated by Legg Mason -- they probably don't have enough employees company-wide to fill it -- but I'm sure they could expand to 150-175 k if they wanted to.

BTW, what happened to the Lombard St parking garage proposed for the Legg Mason building? What properties couldn't the city assemble? What are the prospects for such a garage in the future?
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Old February 16th, 2007, 09:01 AM   #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxsoccer View Post
I tried to bring this up as a point of contention a few months back and nobody bit. So I'll try again... I looked at the microsoft 3-d images of baltimore and they have a feature where if you put the cursor on any spot on the image it will give you the elevation. Well, I put the cursor on top of most of the tall buildings in the city and EVERY single one came within a small margin of error of whats reported (usually within 3-5 feet). BUT, when I went to the top of the marriott it was significantly less than the sources reported at 430. I don't have the program up now, but I believe it was 358 feet. I found it remarkable that it would be sooo accurate on everything but the marriott. I really found think the 430 is inaccurate to tell you the truth. I thought you guys would have had some opinions, but nobody ever replied...maybe now that the issue is in the forefront, somebody will check it out and see what they think....
The Tremont Plaza is 37 stories and 390 feet. The Marriott is only 32 stories. As both of these are hotels, wouldn't the hieght of each floor be comparable? The World Trade Center appears to be taller than the Marriott, doesn't it? That is about 440 ft, if I recall correctly.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 10:05 AM   #988
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Iner Harbor Marriott

There was a Newspaper article just before the Water Front Marriott Open that stated it was 365 feet tall and five feet taller than the HarborView Condo acros the water. There is no way it is anywhere near as tall as the World Trade center. I will stand by predictions Legg Mason 325 Feet Tall and and teh Four Seasons around 420 feet tall.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 11:33 AM   #989
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I think we need either specific numbers from the sber people, or better perception shots of both towers compared to the Marriott.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 11:48 AM   #990
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the perception of height comarison may be a little off.
the Marriott appears to be a little further away from the 4 seasons tower, thus adding asome problems with a "side-by-side" comparison.
The Legg Tower is closer, but appears closer to the same height in the other rendering. angle and distance play a big part in this mystery of exactly, "how tall", these 3 towers are. we really need to get specific numbers for all three from an "undisputed" source. The Marriott has been an on-going height battle for too long.
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Last edited by StevenW; February 16th, 2007 at 12:01 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 03:04 PM   #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCKenny View Post
Baltimore is on the move with all the projects coming to the city. Also what's going to happen to the old Legg Mason building when this new tower will move to the Harbor East?
it's going to remain vacant. for how long is a mystery. it's still a phenomenal-looking building and it'll draw the attention of many investors. it's just a matter of time.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #992
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I think a good parking arrangement

could draw a big tennant. The views of the city are outstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries View Post
it's going to remain vacant. for how long is a mystery. it's still a phenomenal-looking building and it'll draw the attention of many investors. it's just a matter of time.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #993
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I hope the Lombard/Charles garage ain't built.

'nuff said by me already.

Nate
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Old February 16th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #994
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Today's good news is:

Ethan Allen Furniture is coming to Harbor East on the first floor of the new Elm (AKA Eden) building.

Edgar's Pool Hall is leaving the Verizon Building and heading to the West Side of Downtown due to new Version building retail and office renovations.

Brown's Arcade has been sold and more retail is expected to move in.

Last edited by wada_guy; February 16th, 2007 at 04:35 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #995
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Perhaps the 400+ feet figure for the Marriott was the original height when the building was first proposed at 50 stories.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #996
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I think 425 for the 4 Seasons and 350 for the Legg Mason one.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 05:02 PM   #997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wada_guy View Post
Today's good news is:

Ethan Allen Furniture is coming to Harbor East on the first floor of the new Elm (AKA Eden) building.

Edgar's Pool Hall is leaving the Verizon Building and heading to the West Side of Downtown due to new Version building retail and office renovations.

Brown's Arcade has been sold and more retail is expected to move in.
this is most certainly good news indeed.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #998
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Ethan Allen moving into that area is GREAT news. Harbor East is really becoming the place to be. I hope that with all the new residents and workers moving in, the area will develop a bit more charecter.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #999
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I remember their was an article about Mondawin Mall being renovated if so that's great also I recently went to Mondawin Mall like a couple of weeks it's a huge urban mall much larger than any mall in DC. I like the stores there lots of selections also I got lost coming out there Baltimore has a lot of confusing streets. Also you downtown is larger than DC's downtown.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 05:13 PM   #1000
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Can't knock him for not trying.....

Looks like O'Malley tried to woo the NAACP to stay here in the City. Erlich, naturally, wanted them to go to PG County.

Well, they both lost. Will be a formality before they are all set to go to DC.

Oh well. DC is, well, DC.

Former Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley and former Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. fought to keep the civil rights group in Maryland. City officials offered prime real estate downtown, and Ehrlich suggested that the group relocate to a $2 billion hotel and office complex known as National Harbor being constructed in Prince George's County.

But while NAACP leadership entertained the offers, it made it known that Washington was always the first choice.



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...home-headlines
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