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Old March 2nd, 2007, 04:16 AM   #1481
NovaWolverine
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good article. And I agree w/ design over height. The new design will still be tall, but I was never crazy about the old design, I mean, it would have been welcome but we all know that it could have been better.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 07:18 AM   #1482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eerik View Post
I used to live at Harbor Court, in what was called the "north" tower. (It's "L" shaped in plan, so they figuratively grouped the three together from an "east", "south" and "north" tower.) As far as I know, the tower condominiums weren't intended to have balconies.

But you are correct: the windows are oddly shaped. My understanding for this is they wanted to provide more views out of the building. The tower is rather dark and heavy, anything standard probably would have created an even more dark and insidious appearance....on the inside and outside.

But what a beautiful view: especially of the skyline. Since the base of the "north" tower rests a wee bit west of Charles Street as it runs through the heart of the city, I had a straight shot/view up through the CBD to the Washington Monument from my living room and dining room.
Three views from the 16th floor of the north tower of Harbor Court, taken the weekend before I moved out. First photo, looking up Charles Street. I can’t tell you how many evenings I sat by the window, lights all turned off with a drink in hand, watching the cars drive by…

Second photo looking northwest, taken before actual construction had begun on the ballpark at Camden Yards. Also notice the relic known as “Festival Hall” where the expanded convention center now stands.

Third photo looking east. Allied Chromium still occupies what is now known as Harbor Point; a circus (not the Barnum & Bailey, but the Brooklyn or more probably the Big Apple Circus?) is going on at Harbor East; and notice the building at Fells Point…the old Terminal Warehouse. It is decked out for filming of the motion picture “Avalon” just a few days before being set ablaze for filming. A mere year or two later it would be totally razed, and a new Bond Street Wharf constructed on site.





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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:24 AM   #1483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
Wada, thanks for the BBJ. Maybe I could rustle up a Newberry Magazine sometime for you.

BTW, here is an answered e-mail to my question concerning 10 IH.

"Steve,


I wrote the BBJ's most recent piece on 10 Inner Harbor for the Heavy Hitters section.


The source for that was John Voneiff of Arc Wheeler.


The company is in the process of reworking designs and the tower will not be as tall as originally planned.


John's information is on the company's Web site."

Heather Harlan Warnack

Special Projects Editor

Baltimore Business Journal


--------

There you have it.
I knew this shit was going to happen.

When a city that is soo far left wing and anti-growth it is very hard to expect Major City like tall sky scrapper development.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:26 AM   #1484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
^If the design improves significantly, I wouldn't care too much.

The original design was ho-hum. A more interesting 50 story building would be fine with me.

Nate
A 70-80n story would be much better.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:28 AM   #1485
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Originally Posted by sdeclue View Post
Heartbreaking news about 10 IH. Maybe itll flip back the other way and be the same height or taller? Please? Someone?
As long as Baltimore continues to carry that anti-Business Growth mentality its very impossible to see any neew sky scrappers being built in the city.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:34 AM   #1486
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Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
Ehe....I'm not a supertaller guy. We need some very talls. But this location isn't the one where it would look or operate best.
Of course not, because most people from small rural country hick towns don't stand for Large City like Development and Skyscrappers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
The old design wasn't especially exciting, or interesting. If they come back with something, eye-popping, that'll do a lot more for our skyline and out-of-towners perception than a few extra floors.

Quality, not quantity, is best in the long term.
Tell that to the people in Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Boston, and Houston.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
In 30 years time, if we have 5 or 6 600-750 footers, I'd be fine with that if they all looked good. I don't feel the need to be NYC, Chicago, or Tokyo, Shanghai, Jakarta, and all those "new" Asian cities. I'd die happy and proud of Baltimore's downtown if that's all we ever got out of skyscrapers.
You'd be happy if Baltimore starts looking like a flashback of the 18th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getontrac View Post
We definitely need more than now, but was anybody THAT enamored with the old design?!

Nate
Baltimore needs to compete with other Large Cities for Business/Economic/Revenue Growth.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 12:40 PM   #1487
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WORK HAS STARTED!!!! - BUT New Legg Mason HQ still needs approvals
JEN DEGREGORIO
Daily Record Business Writer
March 1, 2007 6:52 PM

Before gaining approvals from the city Planning Commission, H&S Properties Development Corp. has already begun tearing up the ground where it intends to build a Four Seasons Hotel and Legg Mason Inc.’s new office headquarters.

H&S received an expedited permit from the city that allows excavation of the site at Inner Harbor East, between the Marriott Waterfront Hotel and the Spinnaker Bay residential community. But the plans, which have drastically changed since the city approved them in January 2006, still need consent from the city, said Planning Director Douglas B. McCoach.

The project originally called for a 294-foot-tall, 200-room hotel and a 230-foot-tall condominium building. The plans now call for a 455-foot-tall, 240-room hotel and a 350-foot-tall Legg Mason office tower. (That would make the hotel 1 foot taller than Commerce Place, and the office building 9 feet taller than 414 Water Street. Take note EMPORIS!)

The condominium building’s footprint was supposed to be 15,000 square feet, but the office building planned to replace it would have a 25,000-square-foot footprint. A two-story underground garage has also become a five-story garage that could accommodate 1,200 cars. Such changes would be considered “major” and therefore require approval, McCoach said. But the city expedited the permit because Legg Mason needs to move into its office building by 2009, he said.

“It’s not an uncommon process … to expedite certain aspects of construction,” he said. “It will take them six months to dig that hole.”

Representatives from the development team on Thursday presented revised plans to the city’s Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel. M.J. “Jay” Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., told The Daily Record last month that the city feared the prized financial firm might move its headquarters out of Baltimore. The BDC and other city officials worked for months to retain Legg Mason at the Harbor East location.

Lawrence J. White, chief operating officer of development for Struever Bros. Eccles & Rouse, H&S’ co-developer on the Legg Mason tower, presented plans to panel members yesterday. However, the model and drawings he brought were old and did not represent the new plans. “We’re just at the beginning of designing this office building,” White told panel members. “We really appreciate the accommodation so quickly.”

McCoach said the city often grants building permits to speed up the development process. He was not sure whether the permit, issued by the city housing department, would allow H&S to do more than excavate ground. McCoach said there is a chance the city could deny the developers’ request for a revised site plan.

Legg Mason has already signed a lease with H&S. Are they taking a risk? Possibly.” McCoach said of the developers. “The Planning Commission will do what it thinks is right.”

UDARP members expressed concern about the changes, including the impact of increased traffic in the already congested Harbor East neighborhood. Other panel members worried that the new project reduced pedestrian access to the water and created a “fat,” unattractive footprint, obstructing views of the Inner Harbor. They asked the developers to take their concerns into consideration.

“It’s never been UDARP’s role to say no.’” McCoach said.

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; March 2nd, 2007 at 01:25 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 12:48 PM   #1488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folsomfanatic View Post
i absolutely agree. this building is going to be in the foreground of the city's skyline, so it best be interesting and well-designed. i can't wait for it to take the curse off of that hideous red tower that is on charles street and a part of the intercontinental. that building should be imploded. i was looking at it the other day and it appears as though it was intended to have balconies, but they were never built? if you look at the windows, they have banks of smaller windows that end on a taller, door sized window.
Sort of looks like VERY EXPENSIVE public housings from the outside doesn't it? A few weeks ago I went to www.realtor.com, searched on zip code 21202. On the last page of listings I took the "virtual tour" of one of the now mulit-million $ units. Those long windows frame a kick ass view.

I love your pictures Eerik. I would never have have moved! Is that the McCormick building being demolished (1st picture right corner)? Also, I completely forgot about the "Festival Hall" that was next to the original convention center. Look at the sea of parking around it. That Allied Signal site confused me many times while waiting for a visiting boat to arrive at Harborplace. Try as I would, I never could remember if the boat would come from the right or the left.

I'd like to congratulate that HUGE Scottish Metropolis, Lacavulin, for their banner. Great height! Well done! If there was a site named ruralfields.com, I wonder if they would show pictures of the Empire State Building in their banner? I better shut up. Perhaps one day it will go "green" and there will be sheep grazing on the roof. Ya just never know.

Last edited by 30 Floors Up; March 2nd, 2007 at 03:02 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:04 PM   #1489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
WORK HAS STARTED!!!! - BUT New Legg Mason HQ still needs approvals
JEN DEGREGORIO
Daily Record Business Writer
March 1, 2007 6:52 PM

Before gaining approvals from the city Planning Commission, H&S Properties Development Corp. has already begun tearing up the ground where it intends to build a Four Seasons Hotel and Legg Mason Inc.’s new office headquarters.

H&S received an expedited permit from the city that allows excavation of the site at Inner Harbor East, between the Marriott Waterfront Hotel and the Spinnaker Bay residential community. But the plans, which have drastically changed since the city approved them in January 2006, still need consent from the city, said Planning Director Douglas B. McCoach.

The project originally called for a 294-foot-tall, 200-room hotel and a 230-foot-tall condominium building. The plans now call for a 455-foot-tall, 240-room hotel and a 350-foot-tall Legg Mason office tower. (That would make the hotel 1 foot taller than Commerce Place, and the office building 9 feet taller than 414 Water Street. Take note EMPORIS!)

The condominium building’s footprint was supposed to be 15,000 square feet, but the office building planned to replace it would have a 25,000-square-foot footprint. A two-story underground garage has also become a five-story garage that could accommodate 1,200 cars. Such changes would be considered “major” and therefore require approval, McCoach said. But the city expedited the permit because Legg Mason needs to move into its office building by 2009, he said.

“It’s not an uncommon process … to expedite certain aspects of construction,” he said. “It will take them six months to dig that hole.”

Representatives from the development team on Thursday presented revised plans to the city’s Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel. M.J. “Jay” Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., told The Daily Record last month that the city feared the prized financial firm might move its headquarters out of Baltimore. The BDC and other city officials worked for months to retain Legg Mason at the Harbor East location.

Lawrence J. White, chief operating officer of development for Struever Bros. Eccles & Rouse, H&S’ co-developer on the Legg Mason tower, presented plans to panel members yesterday. However, the model and drawings he brought were old and did not represent the new plans. “We’re just at the beginning of designing this office building,” White told panel members. “We really appreciate the accommodation so quickly.”

McCoach said the city often grants building permits to speed up the development process. He was not sure whether the permit, issued by the city housing department, would allow H&S to do more than excavate ground. McCoach said there is a chance the city could deny the developers’ request for a revised site plan.

Legg Mason has already signed a lease with H&S. Are they taking a risk? Possibly.” McCoach said of the developers. “The Planning Commission will do what it thinks is right.”

UDARP members expressed concern about the changes, including the impact of increased traffic in the already congested Harbor East neighborhood. Other panel members worried that the new project reduced pedestrian access to the water and created a “fat,” unattractive footprint, obstructing views of the Inner Harbor. They asked the developers to take their concerns into consideration.

“It’s never been UDARP’s role to say no.’” McCoach said.
I just yelled out loud at work! LOL 350'ft were my exact thoughts for the Legg Mason. The Four Seasons is taller than I thought it would be. This will be a mighty skyline indeed!
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:05 PM   #1490
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I have a meeting downtown and will take a few photos of the legg site on my way back from it.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 03:58 PM   #1491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eerik View Post
Three views from the 16th floor of the north tower of Harbor Court, taken the weekend before I moved out. First photo, looking up Charles Street. I can’t tell you how many evenings I sat by the window, lights all turned off with a drink in hand, watching the cars drive by…

Second photo looking northwest, taken before actual construction had begun on the ballpark at Camden Yards. Also notice the relic known as “Festival Hall” where the expanded convention center now stands.

Third photo looking east. Allied Chromium still occupies what is now known as Harbor Point; a circus (not the Barnum & Bailey, but the Brooklyn or more probably the Big Apple Circus?) is going on at Harbor East; and notice the building at Fells Point…the old Terminal Warehouse. It is decked out for filming of the motion picture “Avalon” just a few days before being set ablaze for filming. A mere year or two later it would be totally razed, and a new Bond Street Wharf constructed on site.
cool pics, eerik. if i could guess, these pics are from around the early '90's maybe. that's about right?
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 04:03 PM   #1492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Springer View Post
I just yelled out loud at work! LOL 350'ft were my exact thoughts for the Legg Mason. The Four Seasons is taller than I thought it would be. This will be a mighty skyline indeed!
yep, you called it. great estimate by the way!! to be honest with ya', the exact height of BOTH buildings were kind of hard to judge from the renderings because it looked as if the marriott harbor east hotel was dropped back a tad bit.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 04:16 PM   #1493
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The Four Season's tower will be the tallest Tower built here since Commerce place....Am I correct? That is awesome height! I would love to see our skyline extend even farther to the east.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 05:41 PM   #1494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
Wada, thanks for the BBJ. Maybe I could rustle up a Newberry Magazine sometime for you.

BTW, here is an answered e-mail to my question concerning 10 IH.

"Steve,


I wrote the BBJ's most recent piece on 10 Inner Harbor for the Heavy Hitters section......

Blah blah blah blah....

John's information is on the company's Web site."

Heather Harlan Warnack

Special Projects Editor

Baltimore Business Journal


--------

There you have it.
The Arc Wheeler web site still says 715 Feet.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 06:10 PM   #1495
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10 Inner Harbor Redesign

If 10 Inner Harbor is redesigned you can best believe the BDC will slap some hats on that bad boy!
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 06:23 PM   #1496
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observations from my commute:
here are some observations i made while driving home to canton from work in timonium yesterday.

-there is a LARGE swath of land being cleared just north of tv hill. anyone know whats going on there? visible from jfx.

-the MICA dorm is going up VERY fast. after their last building on mt. royal, i'm really excited to see the end product. i almost want to say theat MICA should design all new buildings in the city!

-mercy's parking garage is also going up fast. of course, everything that mercy builds looks like a garage.

-waterstreet, also known as the WADATOWER, is growing on me. it seems less bulky with the brickwork going up. i'm looking forwaard to the roof elements being placed.

-the vue has signifigantly more glass than i thought it would. i still don't like the color of the brick facade, but the glass looks great.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 06:34 PM   #1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
If 10 Inner Harbor is redesigned you can best believe the BDC will slap some hats on that bad boy!
As much power as they weld, they don't have "hat" power!

Nate
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 07:16 PM   #1498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlem87 View Post
As long as Baltimore continues to carry that anti-Business Growth mentality its very impossible to see any neew sky scrappers being built in the city.
Baltimore approved the original design and height. I don't see how the anti grown mentality played into the reduction of height. Its market driven.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:10 PM   #1499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quabex View Post
observations from my commute:
-there is a LARGE swath of land being cleared just north of tv hill. anyone know whats going on there? visible from jfx.
I could be wrong, but I believe that would be the Loyola sports complex.
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Old March 2nd, 2007, 09:43 PM   #1500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian21 View Post
I would love to see our skyline extend even farther to the east.
I'd like to see it extend even further up first. Baltimore is looking more like Manhattan in the sense that it lacks peaks.
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