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Old March 10th, 2007, 08:45 PM   #1781
Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore
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Your just mad that I know the truth of the people who make negative remarks about improving Business/Economic/Revenue Growth for Baltimore as Baltimore/Maryland Haters.

When people who can't handle the truth resort to making threats and use scare tactics to intimidate the person they don't agree with.
Harlem, you really need to tone it down some. Can you please learn to be more respectful? It's really not that hard.

By the way, hello, SSC members!!! I'm glad to be on board.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #1782
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Harlem, you really need to tone it down some. Can you please learn to be more respectful? It's really not that hard.
By the way, hello, SSC members!!! I'm glad to be on board.
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Originally Posted by B'moreOrioles
Nice to meet each and every one of you. I've been a viewer of this site for some time now, and I just decided to have the courage to join. I am truly glad to be a part pf this wonderful site.

I love Baltimore's development thread because of the mutual respect that you guys have for one another (with the exception of that Harlem character). You guys may not agree with each other's posts, but overall, the mutual respect is generally there. Again, I'm glad to be a part of this.
wow, 2 additions in one day! how often does that happen? welcome!!!
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #1783
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What do you guys think about the whole outdoor mixed use town center vs. the old-school indoor mall? I read in a magazine the other day that there was only one indoor mall built in the U.S. last year compared to hundreds built 5years ago. There are over 500 mixed-use town centers being built across the country this year alone. Do you think this will be a continuing trend? and if so, will it eventually start taking place in the actual city...as in infill development. I almost feel like it's a kind of a transitional period between suburban and urban.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:32 PM   #1784
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What's the story with the Michael Graves Cordish building? Is it still happening? The last rendering I saw was pretty goofy looking. Typical of Michael Graves I guess. In the end though, I say the more star-chitect buildings we get, the better. People talk about that Mies Van Der Rohe building on Charles Street all the time...even if it is generally mediocre.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #1785
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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
What do you guys think about the whole outdoor mixed use town center vs. the old-school indoor mall? I read in a magazine the other day that there was only one indoor mall built in the U.S. last year compared to hundreds built 5years ago. There are over 500 mixed-use town centers being built across the country this year alone. Do you think this will be a continuing trend? and if so, will it eventually start taking place in the actual city...as in infill development. I almost feel like it's a kind of a transitional period between suburban and urban.
I don't know maybe after 4-4 decades people just got tired of indoor malls, and the outdoor town center is the new flavor.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #1786
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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
What do you guys think about the whole outdoor mixed use town center vs. the old-school indoor mall? I read in a magazine the other day that there was only one indoor mall built in the U.S. last year compared to hundreds built 5years ago. There are over 500 mixed-use town centers being built across the country this year alone. Do you think this will be a continuing trend? and if so, will it eventually start taking place in the actual city...as in infill development. I almost feel like it's a kind of a transitional period between suburban and urban.
i think outdoor malls are the new wave of the future and eventually, within the next 5 years or so, they will begin to move into the city. i can see something similiar to The Avenue in White Marsh working in the city. it'll happen. it's just a matter of time.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #1787
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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
What's the story with the Michael Graves Cordish building? Is it still happening? The last rendering I saw was pretty goofy looking. Typical of Michael Graves I guess. In the end though, I say the more star-chitect buildings we get, the better. People talk about that Mies Van Der Rohe building on Charles Street all the time...even if it is generally mediocre.
Yes, the Cordish Tower is a go. Should know more specifics on it in a week, hopefully.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 09:56 PM   #1788
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Welcome to the Forum, Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore and B'moreOrioles!
Please post often! It sure is nice to see more and more Baltimore forumers. Every respectable post is very welcomed here.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #1789
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Welcome to the Forum, Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore and B'moreOrioles!
Please post often! It sure is nice to see more and more Baltimore forumers. Every respectable post is very welcomed here.
Thanks for the welcome, Steven and Baltimoreborn1.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #1790
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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
What's the story with the Michael Graves Cordish building? Is it still happening? The last rendering I saw was pretty goofy looking. Typical of Michael Graves I guess. In the end though, I say the more star-chitect buildings we get, the better. People talk about that Mies Van Der Rohe building on Charles Street all the time...even if it is generally mediocre.
Which building on Charles Street? There are two: the commercial building downtown and the residential tower by Hopkins.

The residential building in my opinion is somewhat lackluster; whereas the commercial building is pretty good. The commercial tower definitely fits in better within the site context than the alternative, which at the time would have been to go with the design by Marcel Breuer, which would have been an equally massed building of white precast concrete.

I guess the commercial tower always took a hit since everyone acknowledged it was a direct replica (although smaller and squatter) of the Seagram building in New York. As the first major building to go up in Baltimore in 25 years, One Charles was intended to make a “bold” and “daring” statement to the world, but ended up being a copy of something already built.

In the end, I think One Charles did receive several local awards, if not even a national honor…
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Old March 10th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #1791
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Which building on Charles Street? There are two: the commercial building downtown and the residential tower by Hopkins.

The residential building in my opinion is somewhat lackluster; whereas the commercial building is pretty good. The commercial tower definitely fits in better within the site context than the alternative, which at the time would have been to go with the design by Marcel Breuer, which would have been an equally massed building of white precast concrete.

I guess the commercial tower always took a hit since everyone acknowledged it was a direct replica (although smaller and squatter) of the Seagram building in New York. As the first major building to go up in Baltimore in 25 years, One Charles was intended to make a “bold” and “daring” statement to the world, but ended up being a copy of something already built.

In the end, I think One Charles did receive several local awards, if not even a national honor…
yeah I was talking about the commercial building downtown. It's definitely a Mies classic. Black, exposed steel with bronze windows with a glass box lobby with the raised travertine plaza and all. So it's cool to have one of those in Baltimore since he was such an important part of the Modernism movement. He also did a couple of similar ones in Chicago. I'm particularly thinking of the State of Illinois building...i think that's what it's called. It's that building in the Loop with the huge red steel sculpture ("Flamingo") in front of it.
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Old March 10th, 2007, 11:48 PM   #1792
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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
What do you guys think about the whole outdoor mixed use town center vs. the old-school indoor mall? I read in a magazine the other day that there was only one indoor mall built in the U.S. last year compared to hundreds built 5years ago. There are over 500 mixed-use town centers being built across the country this year alone. Do you think this will be a continuing trend? and if so, will it eventually start taking place in the actual city...as in infill development. I almost feel like it's a kind of a transitional period between suburban and urban.
The “indoor” versus “outdoor” shopping centers are merely a shift of the existing suburban experience: there is nothing urban about them. Take any mall, strip off the roof, and you end up with a basic outdoor shopping center. The Avenue at White Marsh, or the Town Center at Reston, still require a huge parking component that without, would die. And you can’t really “transport” these things into cities, since you still need to address the car.

The present phenomenon to me is simply a shift in marketing: reinventing the way goods is sold. Same old merchandise and storefront, different “curb appeal.”

Retail is such a finicky and thin-skinned industry. Whenever we did any planning initiatives for Baltimore, they were always preceded by hundreds of hours, if not thousands of hours of focus and study group research. It’s not only economics, but also marketing, design, demographics, human psychology, and even anthropology. It’s really a nutty field, where the paradigm can change overnight simply due to some inane shift in mass media.

My prediction is within the next forty years, we’ll develop “more livable” cities. We’ll always have suburbs and malls, but the cities, and in particular the “old suburbs” within a two-mile radius of the downtowns, will resurge. The old toll road corridors like Belair Road, York Road, Reisterstown Road…will find new investment. There, you don’t have to live in a small condo on the twentieth floor of some building. In the old suburbs, you can still own a house and car, definitely walk a few blocks to pick up groceries, yet have the option to utilize mass transit. It will definitely be a sort of mish-mash of what we have today…
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Old March 11th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #1793
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Originally Posted by Eerik View Post
The “indoor” versus “outdoor” shopping centers are merely a shift of the existing suburban experience: there is nothing urban about them. Take any mall, strip off the roof, and you end up with a basic outdoor shopping center. The Avenue at White Marsh, or the Town Center at Reston, still require a huge parking component that without, would die. And you can’t really “transport” these things into cities, since you still need to address the car.

The present phenomenon to me is simply a shift in marketing: reinventing the way goods is sold. Same old merchandise and storefront, different “curb appeal.”

Retail is such a finicky and thin-skinned industry. Whenever we did any planning initiatives for Baltimore, they were always preceded by hundreds of hours, if not thousands of hours of focus and study group research. It’s not only economics, but also marketing, design, demographics, human psychology, and even anthropology. It’s really a nutty field, where the paradigm can change overnight simply due to some inane shift in mass media.

My prediction is within the next forty years, we’ll develop “more livable” cities. We’ll always have suburbs and malls, but the cities, and in particular the “old suburbs” within a two-mile radius of the downtowns, will resurge. The old toll road corridors like Belair Road, York Road, Reisterstown Road…will find new investment. There, you don’t have to live in a small condo on the twentieth floor of some building. In the old suburbs, you can still own a house and car, definitely walk a few blocks to pick up groceries, yet have the option to utilize mass transit. It will definitely be a sort of mish-mash of what we have today…
right. Although the mixed-use component, that is, placing office and residential above the retail makes it more than just an outdoor shopping mall. This is different than earlier prototypes like The Avenue at White Marsh...especially when they also become TODs. I think the architecture of alot of these places usually leaves alot to be desired... but to me, any straying from the standard single-use development is a good thing.

I do agree that the older pre-war suburbs will resurge. They have thosegreat small semi-public setbacks that make such great sidewalk spaces.

I have one REAL question though. You could safely say that it's not possible that every part of a city can be in good condition at once. There will always be neighborhoods in decline...and usually they change. It's a cycle. Alot of it has to do with age and what's fashionable. What happens to the ring of 70s/80s/90s/suburbs when they're 40,50,60 years old, aging badly because the construction quality was poor, and outdated? suburban slums? Has this already happened to some of the inner ring suburbs from the 50s and 60s? What happens when most of the virgin land within a 75 mile radius is gone?

Just a discussion point. I love talking about this kind of stuff.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 01:32 AM   #1794
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I agree. State ownership of BWI is bad business. Rents and landing fees are cheaper at BWI yet they still can't build the international business. They claimed that adding "Washington" to the name will help market the airport. I don't see the results. Southwest is expected to go international soon. That may be the only way BWI will add international flights.
I agree that Southwest might be the only way for BWI to make a strong move towards having a large international presence. Had US Airways continued to use BWI as a hub, we would have likely seen a stronger international presence. I think they moved to Charlotte? They have partnered with many international companies and offer something like 200-250 international destinations. BWI is a major airport for Southwest, which is completely domestic. This probably had a major impact and having Southwest go international will also (hopefully) have a major impact.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 03:11 AM   #1795
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Maybe it's been mentioned, but what's the holdup with the Olmstead? Is is still going to be built? It would be a shame if it doesn't go up because it really is a nice looking building.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 03:47 AM   #1796
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I know. I don't understand some people's obsession with cities like Atlanta and Charlotte. If you've ever been to those places you'll notice that, other than their new somewhat generic high-rise buidings, they have no real urban fabric or street life. They're downtowns mostly consist of these clusters of really tall buildings surrounded by brutal, windswept, hardscape plazas, or even worse, parking lots. They're mostly for built for show as you're driving through the city at 70 mph on the interstate (the most common method of travel). Other than that, you have really low density single-use development, criss-crossed by 8-lane highways and separated by vast swaths of "no-mans land" kind of spaces. Quaint urban neighborhoods of any substance are seriously lacking, and for me, those are the kind of places that I want to live in. Not to mention that they're completely landlocked. Anyway, I should know since that's exactly why I moved to Baltimore from the southeast...and I'm supposedly part of the highly coveted "young creative class" that every city's been clamouring for lately.

Atlanta? Charlotte? Nashville?

NO THANKS. You can keep 'em.
don't mind me... I'm from Pittsburgh... but this post was a thing of beauty!
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Old March 11th, 2007, 04:10 AM   #1797
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don't mind me... I'm from Pittsburgh... but this post was a thing of beauty!
Thanks. I caught some real flack for this comment from Charlotte people. I stand by it though. I've never been to Pittsburgh, but something tells me I'd like it!
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Old March 11th, 2007, 04:28 AM   #1798
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Part of this problem stems from the fact that BWI is run by the state which has done a terrible job of marketing the airport. For one thing, BWI should have billboards along I 95 letting passers by know what international options they have. New airlines should be given 3 months of free advertising in newspapers, magazines, and billboards highlighting the new service. Most people don't even know that BWI is a viable international hub. They have to do a better job of getting the word out. Secondly, we're sandwiched between Dulles and Philadelphia and that kind of hurts us in attracting new business but British Airways flies to all three cities and they do well. BWI will never be what Dulles is but I think there is room to grow. If they could land a nonstop to Frankfurt or Amsterdam while sustaining the service we already have, more airlines would take notice. When we lure a new international carrier and they pull up stakes after two years (Aer Lingus) or go bankrupt (Ghana Airways) it has a more negative effect than if they had never served BWI in the first place. I travel alot for business and BWI is a great airport but they key is getting the word out while sustaining our current international carriers.
Isn't the biggest problem the fact that we are a huge hub for a discount domestic airline with no international partnerships? Cincinnatti has a huge international terminal not because people from all over the world want to come to Cincy, but because it is a huge hub for Delta.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 04:34 AM   #1799
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Which building on Charles Street? There are two: the commercial building downtown and the residential tower by Hopkins.

The residential building in my opinion is somewhat lackluster; whereas the commercial building is pretty good. The commercial tower definitely fits in better within the site context than the alternative, which at the time would have been to go with the design by Marcel Breuer, which would have been an equally massed building of white precast concrete.

I guess the commercial tower always took a hit since everyone acknowledged it was a direct replica (although smaller and squatter) of the Seagram building in New York. As the first major building to go up in Baltimore in 25 years, One Charles was intended to make a “bold” and “daring” statement to the world, but ended up being a copy of something already built.

In the end, I think One Charles did receive several local awards, if not even a national honor…
I'm no architect and maybe I don't have the best taste, but I like Highfield House. I think it is classic Mies. IMHO
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Old March 11th, 2007, 06:03 AM   #1800
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Thanks. I caught some real flack for this comment from Charlotte people. I stand by it though. I've never been to Pittsburgh, but something tells me I'd like it!
Doubtful. That city depresses the hell out of me.

If it isn't the weather, it's the architecture, or the lack of any type of energy. It's good I don't take a gun with me when I go there. The geography is confining too.
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