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Old March 11th, 2007, 07:16 AM   #1801
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Doubtful. That city depresses the hell out of me.

If it isn't the weather, it's the architecture, or the lack of any type of energy. It's good I don't take a gun with me when I go there. The geography is confining too.
Tell us how you really feel!
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Old March 11th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #1802
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This is not meant to bash those cities, because I like most of the cities on the east Coast.

But as a child which was close to a decade ago now, I went to charlotte. And of course when you see or hear about Charlotte on the news it appears to be one of thos emajor cities full of life. As a child I had no idea that when I went through downtown charlotte I would be extremely dissapointed, for reasons stated previously in this thread. Its no offense to the state or the city, but Baltimore despite its many asthetic faults is a much more lively place. And the only memory I have of Charlotte now is one of dissapointment. The same can be said for Downtown Los Angeles at night.

I stayed at the famous Biltmore Hotel and would walk the streets at night. On one street they were filming "Daredevil" with Ben Affleck, then there was 0 traffic, and all the rest of the people were homeless. Los Angeles has many positives though, but there downtown was nothing compared to Baltimores.

To avoid a flamewar, let me say that both of the aformentioned cities have admirable qualities that I would like Baltimore to be able to emulate someday. However, I belive Baltimores downtown night life is superior.

Last edited by Baltimoreborn1; March 11th, 2007 at 08:09 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM   #1803
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I agree.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #1804
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Originally Posted by Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore View Post
Harlem, you really need to tone it down some. Can you please learn to be more respectful? It's really not that hard.

By the way, hello, SSC members!!! I'm glad to be on board.
Yes they got me.

But your right its not hard to be respectful.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #1805
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Isn't that the same style that would be at Reston Town Center then?? Since everything is so great there, why not create a shopping center like that with the same "upscale" shopping as the retail part...
Lets see....

Reston Town Center is to Fairfax County, As Tysons Corner is to Fairfax County, As Fair Oaks Mall is to Fairfax County....

My point is that Reston Town Center is not taking away any of the other upscale indoor malls in Fairfax County.

Columbia Mall is the only Upscale Mall in Howard County which serves NorthEastern Montgomery County, and the SouthWest Baltimore Suburbs.

It is not right to take away the only the few Upscale Indoor Malls in Maryland because tearing it down just for some soo-called mixed use development will still encourage people who live in the Maryland Suburbs to drive all the way to Virginia to shop at the retail stores that they like, that meaans more money will be leaking out of Maryland and filling up Virginia's retail growth.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 01:24 PM   #1806
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What do you guys think about the whole outdoor mixed use town center vs. the old-school indoor mall?
Whether you like it or not the so-called old-school indoor malls are still popular. They just added 150 more stores to the Tyson's Corner Mall. A new 2 level indoor Mall(Short Pump) was built in the suburbs of Richmond, and a New 2 level Indoor Mall(North Lakes) was built in the Northern Suburbs of Charlotte, NC.

Outdoor Mixed-Use Malls are popular, in fact they are being built along side of Indoor Malls such as the new proposed Outdoor town center at Tysons Corner.

I strongly Believe that Outdoor Malls work very Well anlong-side with mixed use outdoor Malls.

Why not Build New Indoor Malls with the Attachment of an Outdoor Mix-Use Development to give best of Both worls of Retail/Office/Residential Development.


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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
I read in a magazine the other day that there was only one indoor mall built in the U.S. last year compared to hundreds built 5years ago. There are over 500 mixed-use town centers being built across the country this year alone. Do you think this will be a continuing trend? and if so, will it eventually start taking place in the actual city...as in infill development.
Can you post a link to the magazine that you received this information from????

Most of the mixed-use town centers are built in inner cities that are in the pipe lines for urban renewal. That trend will continue as long as it remains positive in investment.

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Originally Posted by MountVEE View Post
I almost feel like it's a kind of a transitional period between suburban and urban.
The key word is almost, because there are still alot of heavily populated suburban areas that are contuing to build Indoor Malls and Mixed-Use Development.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #1807
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Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries View Post
i think outdoor malls are the new wave of the future and eventually, within the next 5 years or so, they will begin to move into the city. i can see something similiar to The Avenue in White Marsh working in the city. it'll happen. it's just a matter of time.
Indoor Malls are not going to go away but Outdoor Retail Malls will become a popular attraction in major cities that are looking to revitalize old depressed/run down communities.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #1808
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Originally Posted by Baltimoreborn1 View Post
This is not meant to bash those cities, because I like most of the cities on the east Coast.

But as a child which was close to a decade ago now, I went to charlotte. And of course when you see or hear about Charlotte on the news it appears to be one of thos emajor cities full of life. As a child I had no idea that when I went through downtown charlotte I would be extremely dissapointed, for reasons stated previously in this thread. Its no offense to the state or the city, but Baltimore despite its many asthetic faults is a much more lively place. And the only memory I have of Charlotte now is one of dissapointment. The same can be said for Downtown Los Angeles at night.

I stayed at the famous Biltmore Hotel and would walk the streets at night. On one street they were filming "Daredevil" with Ben Affleck, then there was 0 traffic, and all the rest of the people were homeless. Los Angeles has many positives though, but there downtown was nothing compared to Baltimores.

To avoid a flamewar, let me say that both of the aformentioned cities have admirable qualities that I would like Baltimore to be able to emulate someday. However, I belive Baltimores downtown night life is superior.
If you have not been to Charlotte within the past 10 years then its time for you to make a visit again because from what I have seen that city has grown alot and I also heard that the population has skyrocket to 700,000.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #1809
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Welcome to the Forum, urbngrth123!
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Old March 11th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #1810
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Originally Posted by urbngrth123 View Post
Can you post a link to the magazine that you received this information from????
Here you go.This is an Retail Industry Magazine put out by the International Council of Shopping Centers. My firm does alot of retail so we attend several of the conventions every year (one was just in DC last week) so we keep our finger on the pulse of the industry. This is the article but I would recommend you read past and current issues. I know how much you care about "upscale" shopping and "business/revenue/growth"

http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct0206...creek_mall.php

Last edited by MountVEE; March 11th, 2007 at 07:29 PM.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 07:52 PM   #1811
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We will have an outmall in Harboreast

similar to the White Marsh Avenue over the next 5-6 years. The Four Seasons/Legg Mason Towers and the Vue will include over 100,000 sq ft of retail and I imagine Phase 11 of Harboreast(bakery building, Meyer Seed) will include another 20 retail stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbngrth123 View Post
Indoor Malls are not going to go away but Outdoor Retail Malls will become a popular attraction in major cities that are looking to revitalize old depressed/run down communities.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:01 PM   #1812
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Originally Posted by LilMoeJoeJoe View Post
BWI will never be what Dulles is but I think there is room to grow.
Can people stop saying that please? All this "never will happen", pessimistic stuff is what I hate reading.

I can't comment on the marketing, but several months last year BWI had more passengers then Dulles. Just remember that Maryland has far more populous counties with 500,000+ people surrounding BWI and we are only getting wealthier. I live in Silver Spring and it's just easier for me to go to BWI. There is no reason for me to go to Dulles. Virginia only has Fairfax but then the other counties like Loudon are nowhere near its population. Dulles is also always more expensive to purchase a ticket at than BWI.

BWI has done pretty good in the amount of office space around it. Something like 7 million sq/ft is around BWI compared to around 10 million at Dulles. I just saw another office building under construction around BWI. That's pretty good for a smaller airport.

The attitude from some officials for BWI to be competitive and aggressive is encouraging. County Exec for Anne Arundel called for an Aeropolis, urbanizing the area around an airport.

The biggest impediment to BWI is Baltimore. Just like Washington with Dulles, the compliment to an airport is the major city but it's just not being utilized by Baltimore. Why? There are not enough office buildings and corporate heads in the city to use it. Baltimore doesn't create that draw. Baltimore must become "International" before it can get much easier for BWI. The only way that will be less significant is if the surrounding counties up their game.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:21 PM   #1813
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Originally Posted by urbngrth123 View Post
Whether you like it or not the so-called old-school indoor malls are still popular. They just added 150 more stores to the Tyson's Corner Mall. A new 2 level indoor Mall(Short Pump) was built in the suburbs of Richmond, and a New 2 level Indoor Mall(North Lakes) was built in the Northern Suburbs of Charlotte, NC.

Outdoor Mixed-Use Malls are popular, in fact they are being built along side of Indoor Malls such as the new proposed Outdoor town center at Tysons Corner.

I strongly Believe that Outdoor Malls work very Well anlong-side with mixed use outdoor Malls.

Why not Build New Indoor Malls with the Attachment of an Outdoor Mix-Use Development to give best of Both worls of Retail/Office/Residential Development.



What is happening at Westfield Annapolis Mall might be representative of the trend. A $100 million addition is under construction as we speak. It is being built around the original indoor mall and many of the new stores will also have a second outside access directly from the parking lot. People want to be able to quickly get in and out of certain stores without having to navigate the entire mall. That said, indoor malls are going to remain popular in the colder sections of the country as folks prefer to stay warm. In the south, the outdoor model is definately becoming more popular. Short Pump and Stony Point in the Richmond area, both opened in the last few years, are examples of this.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:22 PM   #1814
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Originally Posted by fanofterps View Post
similar to the White Marsh Avenue over the next 5-6 years. The Four Seasons/Legg Mason Towers and the Vue will include over 100,000 sq ft of retail and I imagine Phase 11 of Harboreast(bakery building, Meyer Seed) will include another 20 retail stores.
That sounds very good for the downtown/harbor area, but I do hope that they can eventually attract a Macy's and/or Nordstroms.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #1815
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Originally Posted by B'moreOrioles View Post
Nice to meet each and every one of you. I've been a viewer of this site for some time now, and I just decided to have the courage to join. I am truly glad to be a part pf this wonderful site.

I love Baltimore's development thread because of the mutual respect that you guys have for one another (with the exception of that Harlem character). You guys may not agree with each other's posts, but overall, the mutual respect is generally there. Again, I'm glad to be a part of this.
Welcome to the board!! I take it you are an O's fan. In fact, I think it's time to start a thread devoted to baseball in this region!!
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:29 PM   #1816
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Can people stop saying that please? All this "never will happen", pessimistic stuff is what I hate reading.

I can't comment on the marketing, but several months last year BWI had more passengers then Dulles. Just remember that Maryland has far more populous counties with 500,000+ people surrounding BWI and we are only getting wealthier. I live in Silver Spring and it's just easier for me to go to BWI. There is no reason for me to go to Dulles. Virginia only has Fairfax but then the other counties like Loudon are nowhere near its population. Dulles is also always more expensive to purchase a ticket at than BWI.

BWI has done pretty good in the amount of office space around it. Something like 7 million sq/ft is around BWI compared to around 10 million at Dulles. I just saw another office building under construction around BWI. That's pretty good for a smaller airport.

The attitude from some officials for BWI to be competitive and aggressive is encouraging. County Exec for Anne Arundel called for an Aeropolis, urbanizing the area around an airport.

The biggest impediment to BWI is Baltimore. Just like Washington with Dulles, the compliment to an airport is the major city but it's just not being utilized by Baltimore. Why? There are not enough office buildings and corporate heads in the city to use it. Baltimore doesn't create that draw. Baltimore must become "International" before it can get much easier for BWI. The only way that will be less significant is if the surrounding counties up their game.
Speaking of Maryland Airports; I would believe that The Maryland Eastern Shore deserves a public use Airport preferably in the Salisbury-Ocean City Area in that way it can attract more tourist to visit Ocean City in the summer instead of Always traveling to Virginia Beach, Myrtle Beach, and Atlantic City.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:31 PM   #1817
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Originally Posted by fanofterps View Post
similar to the White Marsh Avenue over the next 5-6 years. The Four Seasons/Legg Mason Towers and the Vue will include over 100,000 sq ft of retail and I imagine Phase 11 of Harboreast(bakery building, Meyer Seed) will include another 20 retail stores.
Yeah Harbor East is gonna be something to watch once they get the ball rolling. I already heard, though, that the Vue lost Urban Outfitters to Harborplace. They're supposedly moving to where City Lights used to be. I heard this from someone who works at WJE which does retail leasing so I'd say it's pretty credible.

I wonder when they'll tear down those bakery buildings. I hope they fill in all the parking lots first. Once they do that, Harboreast and Fells Point will be truly connected...with no gaps, no no-mans-land blocks, or chainlink fences anywhere. The bakery buildings have to go. While that's a definitely a good thing, I'll miss the constant smell of cinnamon in Fells Point. When I lived there last year it was such a great thing.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 08:46 PM   #1818
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Speaking of Maryland Airports; I would believe that The Maryland Eastern Shore deserves a public use Airport preferably in the Salisbury-Ocean City Area in that way it can attract more tourist to visit Ocean City in the summer instead of Always traveling to Virginia Beach, Myrtle Beach, and Atlantic City.
Both OC and Salisbury have small airports. I believe a couple of attempts to start service between Baltimore and OC have been tried, but without success. If such a service could get started, then people could connect to OC thru BWI from all over the country.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #1819
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If you have not been to Charlotte within the past 10 years then its time for you to make a visit again because from what I have seen that city has grown alot and I also heard that the population has skyrocket to 700,000.
I'm pretty sure Charlotte's population is less than Baltimore's. They have a population of about 610,000 to Baltimore's 650,000. I have been to Charlotte briefly last year when driving to Atlanta and was amazed to hardly see anyone walking the streets in the so-called financial capital of America. I did like the fact that their downtown traffic was bearable.
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Old March 11th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #1820
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What is happening at Westfield Annapolis Mall might be representative of the trend. A $100 million addition is under construction as we speak. It is being built around the original indoor mall and many of the new stores will also have a second outside access directly from the parking lot. People want to be able to quickly get in and out of certain stores without having to navigate the entire mall. That said, indoor malls are going to remain popular in the colder sections of the country as folks prefer to stay warm. In the south, the outdoor model is definately becoming more popular. Short Pump and Stony Point in the Richmond area, both opened in the last few years, are examples of this.
I thaught Short Pump was an Indoor Mall and Stony Point was the Outdoor Mall.

I definately agree with the Outdoor Mall being mostly popular in warmer climate areas, Miami is a wonderful example of it. I also agree that the Indoor will remain popular in areas that experiance cold winers like the Baltimore-Washington-NOVA area which is why I support the best of both world of building/expanding Indoor Malls along with building an Outdoor Mall complementing the Indoor Mall.
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