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Old January 18th, 2007, 04:22 PM   #1
historybuffer
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MILWAUKEE | Harley-Davidson Museum | Com

http://www.h-dmuseum.oxblue.com/?HDC...bmLocale=en_US

The large beige concrete low-profile building across the river and to the left is the current
Milwaukee Post Office. The Amtrak station is adjacent and to the lower left outside the web cam's
original range.

The webcam shows the site is positioned well to attract out-of-town visitors arriving by Amtrak for a day in downtown or Summerfest becoming the gateway to the redeveloped Valley.

Last edited by historybuffer; January 18th, 2007 at 04:27 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 04:31 PM   #2
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What other American products have spawned such a religious following?
Certainly Spam comes to mind with its museum and annual festival in
Minnesota.

Coca-Cola in Atlanta has a museum and large gift shop.

Has any brand aside from Harley_Davidson created such a cultural identity?
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Old January 18th, 2007, 04:54 PM   #3
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Disney
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Old January 18th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #4
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Chevrolet Corvettes and Ford Mustangs. Both models have huge fun clubs, and the Corvette even has its own museum down in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 09:18 PM   #5
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I see some parallels between the Coca Cola museum in Atlanta and this new Harley Davidson museum. Both will be tourist attractions based entirely on one brand-name. But I think the HD museum will have more drawing power than the Coke museum, since Harley Davidson has brand-name devotion on a level that few brands have. Could you imagine someone tatooing the Coca Cola logo on their arm, or people traveling from the world over simply to party with other Coke drinkers?

I'm happy HD decided to build this musuem in Milwaukee. They could have just as easily put it in Las Vegas where it would probably have brought in three times the visitors. Having said that, this is going to be the kind of thing that locals will go to once or twice in their entire lives, if that. In that sense it will be like Fisherman's Wharf to San Francisco ... the tourist area that locals avoid like the plague.
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Old January 18th, 2007, 09:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Disney
Good one. But I haven't seen many Donald Duck and Pluto wannabes walking around the streets these days,

that some kind of rebel culture of fashion, music, food and attitude.

Those the countless (2nd identity) weekend warriors in leather jackets and accessories that blast through the country side landscapes in good weather.

But since you're here I'll post over on the Madison development thread.

Last edited by historybuffer; January 18th, 2007 at 10:01 PM.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 02:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuffer View Post
http://www.h-dmuseum.oxblue.com/?HDC...bmLocale=en_US

The large beige concrete low-profile building across the river and to the left is the current
Milwaukee Post Office. The Amtrak station is adjacent and to the lower left outside the web cam's
original range.

The webcam shows the site is positioned well to attract out-of-town visitors arriving by Amtrak for a day in downtown or Summerfest becoming the gateway to the redeveloped Valley.
Just added that site to my favorites!
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Old January 19th, 2007, 02:26 AM   #8
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Like someone else said, Mustangs and Corvettes. I don't know too much about Corvettes, but I know that there are Mustang events all over the country and a few monthly magazines dedicated to them. Loud, powerful, bad-ass American muscle, kind of the same sort of appeal as Harleys I guess.

I think the Harley-Davidson museum should be good for Milwaukee. Some tour guide should start a "Beer and Harleys" tour, with stops at breweries and HD facilities.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 06:34 AM   #9
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Also with the HUGE addition of the Potowatomi Casino this area will be kickin'. Now it needs some qaulity restaraunts and some fine retail to really get it goin'
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Old January 20th, 2007, 05:32 AM   #10
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Hmm the last mayor only wanted all "light industry" filling the valley. I did see a couple of mixed income proposals for condos down there but close to the 6th Street viaduct.

How's the Hank Aaron trail looking these days?
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Old January 20th, 2007, 10:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuffer
Hmm the last mayor only wanted all "light industry" filling the valley.
If you are referring to Mayor Norquist...you couldn't be more incorrect. He did not want all light industry filling the Valley. It was under his administration that a vision to redevelop the Menomonee Valley with a mix of uses was created. And that vision is being built today. Industrial, office, entertainment, recreational, retail, and yes, the door has even been left open for some possible residential in some places. There is indeed a greater emphasis on industrial and office park development, but that is being done so as to take advantage of key points like the larger parcels of land available in the Valley, and proximity to the freeways (things the City normally loses out on when competing with the suburbs). But those plans do not exclude other uses from being developed in the Valley where appropriate.

The Norquist administration essentially laid all the groundwork before he left office, Barrett more or less inherited it and ran with it. Norquist steered Harley to the Valley site for its museum/shop/restaurant/offices...by the time Barrett took office, it was time for the political/financial wrangling to move the proposal forward. Norquist led the way with the plans for the new eco/green/sustainable business park in the Valley and the access enhancements (6th Street Bridges leading into the Valley, rather than over the Valley; Canal Street extension through the Valley)...and a while after Barrett took office, it was time to start filling it with tenants. The Hank Aaron State Trail through the Valley? Approved under Norquist, partially completed under Norquist, still in progress under Barrett. The Menomonee Valley Business Improvement District? Created under Norquist, continued under Barrett...

Last edited by Markitect; January 20th, 2007 at 10:51 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 01:00 AM   #12
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Do you guys know there's a new rendering (semi-birdseye) on the Museum Site?
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Old January 21st, 2007, 01:23 AM   #13
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Actually that's incorrect. I had friends that were interested in converting the old Milwaukee Road Yards---Roundhouse----etc-- into an entertainment-retail complex pre-dating the Selig coup. They had wanted to renovate most of the buildings, and Norquist (the same mayor that didn't want Nordstroms) refused to bring about TIFs or BIDs for the infrastructure, renovation, brownfields in this context.
There is federal dollars for Brownfields but not for a project like they proposed.

It was aggravating that there was such a push for typical re-shuffling existing light industry in the area and no consideration to encourage a silicon (M) valley by relocating incubator spin-offs from County's Research Park in Wauwatosa w/MCOW. No tax breaks nuttin'. Yeah where exactly are these few businesses moving to valley coming from? Yeah that high-tech corridor in the valley
that is happening by exponential leaps and bounds.

We lose population while Madison continues to grow fueld by the innovations of new biotech's spun-off from the UW and the relocation of out-of-state biotech (and now a Canadian drug company) there.

Maybe the Porsche-HD research will foster rock propelled cycles. Or Johnson Controls will finally decide that rather than give it all to the Honda Insight, why not leave GM's Saturn in the dust and make use of the car industry building infrastructure we already have in town.
.

Last edited by historybuffer; January 21st, 2007 at 03:59 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 01:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UWMilwaukeeJay View Post
Also with the HUGE addition of the Potowatomi Casino this area will be kickin'. Now it needs some qaulity restaraunts and some fine retail to really get it goin'
Milwaukee's just fine in the fine dining category. Sanfords, Lake Park Bistro, Bacchus, just to name a few, are all nationally recognized culinary destinations. Extensive, upscale retail, IMO, is the only remaining roadblock to Milwaukee becoming a truly top tier american city.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 02:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuffer
Actually that's incorrect.
Actually, that is correct (Read the Menomonee Valley Market Study and Land Use Plan).

There were a few different retail/entertainment/one-stop-shop type developments proposed for the old Milwaukee Road facility, and yes, Norquist did shoot them down. Because that site is more ideally suited for industrial development, as explained previously. Many of those plans consisted of big boxes, strip malls, fast food joints, and parking lots--all stuff that was completely un-urban and/or would erode away at the already struggling downtown and neighborhood commercial districts. Perhaps the plans your "friends" came up with were more urban, and tried to reuse those sorry excuses for dilapidated buildings (which the railroad land holding company let deteriorate into crap), but those types of uses are still better suited for other places in the city, or other places within the Valley itself.

Quote:
It was aggravating that there was such a push for typical re-shuffling existing light industry in the area and no consideration to encourage a silicon (M) valley by relocating incubator spin-offs from County's Research Park in Wauwatosa w/MCOW. No tax breaks nuttin'.

We lose population while Madison continues to grow fueled by the innovations of new biotech's spun-off from the UW and the relocation of out-of-state biotech (and now a Canadian drug company) there.
There is absolutely nothing in any of the plans for the Menomonee Valley that exclude or prohibit it from becoming the home of modern/high-tech/bio-tech industries of the 21st century. Wherever you got that from, you got bad information.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 03:15 AM   #16
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Unfortunately out-of-town casino patrons have no idea any other restaurants exist outside the ones
in hotel lobbies.

Last edited by historybuffer; January 21st, 2007 at 03:30 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 03:18 AM   #17
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Actually that is incorrect, no "Big Boxes" and no "fastfood" restaurants were in the design. Where are you getting your facts.. and facts regarding the structural integrity of the Milwaukee Road complex?
Is that some sort of subjective opinion? You aren't Googling hard enough...


Where's the retail now? Aside from the H-D site, and expansion and the casino, the only other
development is the reshuffling of a fewarea, light-industrial businesses.


I still love how you said the Kasubes had no right to live on Jones Island because they were
"squatters" that still makes everyone here laugh. They all remember how I responded to you by saying that everyone in Milwaukee is a squatter except for the Native Americans. That was priceless.



I'm going to either capitalize my handle name or put the word architecture in it.
I can't decide which is more omniscient sounding.

Last edited by historybuffer; January 21st, 2007 at 06:54 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 09:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Actually that is incorrect, no "Big Boxes" and no "fastfood" restaurants were in the design. Where are you getting your facts..
Yes, there were proposals that included big boxes, strip malls, fast food, etc. for the west end of the Valley. I saw some renderings for such a proposal several years ago. I did not say that the design your friends came up with included those kinds of things. Recall that I said there were multiple different redevelopment proposals for the site. There were also designs that created retail and entertainment uses in a faux town center arrangement, or "lifestyle center, or whatever buzzword is being used these days. Regardless of the built for any of those proposals had, the rationale for denying them for that particular site have been explained already.

Quote:
Where's the retail now? Aside from the H-D site, and expansion and the casino, the only other
development is the reshuffling of a fewarea, light-industrial businesses.
As the Valley begins to fill up with more places to work (industrial and office) and the new/expanded entertainment/recreational facilities come online (Casino, HD Museum), it will attract more retail activity. Even the long-range plans for the Harley site anticipate this, which is why there are large plots being left open, to fill in with future development which includes the possibility of more non-HD-related retail. The base of customers from which retail can draw must be established first before retail can be built.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 10:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markitect View Post
Yes, there were proposals that included big boxes, strip malls, fast food, etc. for the west end of the Valley. I saw some renderings for such a proposal several years ago. I did not say that the design your friends came up with included those kinds of things. Recall that I said there were multiple different redevelopment proposals for the site. There were also designs that created retail and entertainment uses in a faux town center arrangement, or "lifestyle center, or whatever buzzword is being used these days. Regardless of the built for any of those proposals had, the rationale for denying them for that particular site have been explained already.



As the Valley begins to fill up with more places to work (industrial and office) and the new/expanded entertainment/recreational facilities come online (Casino, HD Museum), it will attract more retail activity. Even the long-range plans for the Harley site anticipate this, which is why there are large plots being left open, to fill in with future development which includes the possibility of more non-HD-related retail. The base of customers from which retail can draw must be established first before retail can be built.
But even if that does occur down the road.....with the city approving tons of industrial buildings in the Valley more-so than I think of office space, it just won't look attractive for much of anything. I thought it was another big blunder of the city to bypass yet another area that needed rejuvenation and was in the middle of 3 big attractions - Miller Park, Potowotomi Casino, and the H-D Museum, with industrial nonsense!

Yes, I know the history of the valley was industrial, but I remember plenty of people saying that its about time Milwaukee change its image from a "rust-belt city" to something more urban, clean, and a healthy community in which to live. Lifestyle centers and retail/entertainment complexes would have given a boost not only to that corridor but to the area around it, which needs a boost to begin with.
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Old January 21st, 2007, 10:48 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by brewcityfan
Yes, I know the history of the valley was industrial, but I remember plenty of people saying that its about time Milwaukee change its image from a "rust-belt city" to something more urban, clean, and a healthy community in which to live.
The redevelopment plans for the Valley are all about shaking the rust belt image. It's not about reintroducing smoke-belching, water-polluting, dirty soot-covered factories. In fact, the idea is quite the opposite--clean, modern, businesses for the 21st century. The vision is also very urban, with access to multiple modes of transportation, and encourages environmentally sustainable practices. It is about improving the economic health of the Valley itself, as well as the adjacent neighborhoods (which happen to have the highest concentrations of unemployment in the state). It also includes bolstering existing industries, like Falk and Peck and CP Rail, and others.

The idea was never about redeveloping the Valley as industry because historically it's always been industry. And again, the plans do include incorporating/expanding non-industrial/office uses.

Please take some time to look though the overall vision for the Valley: www.renewthevalley.org. It is not the stereotypical concept of industrial development.

Quote:
Lifestyle centers and retail/entertainment complexes would have given a boost not only to that corridor but to the area around it, which needs a boost to begin with.
But why plop down a phony town center style mixed-use development (or for those proposals that aimed even lower, typical srip malls and parking lots) on a gigantic swath of underutilized land in the middle of the city when there are all kinds of opportunities to put those exact same uses in authentic neighborhoods that already exist throughout the city and are in need of reinvestment themselves?
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