Nordic Aviation Thread

[Beg]

Pifff...ain't SAS gonna open new long-haul routes from Oslo? I don't know a single long-haul route from Gardermoen served by SAS

[staff]

If it had been economically viable, SAS would have operated long-hauls from Oslo.
There have been rumours about re-starting the OSL-EWR route though.

[Kaneda]

IMO Continental beat them to that one, and if SAS would start the route, both would end up closing.

[NorthStar77]

Originally Posted by staff

There have been rumours about re-starting the OSL-EWR route though.

Hmm, well that route is already taken by Continental, they are even talking about increasing the frequency, from today's daily route, so I think that will be hard for SAS. But increased competition on the route is always a good thing

[Fab 5]

Originally Posted by Fab 5

They have to release those numbers at some point; they cannot hold them back. I am looking into it.

I have put someone in charge of finding out what's going on with regard to these long-anticipated stats from CPH. Lets see what happens.

[IceCheese]

Originally Posted by staff

If it had been economically viable, SAS would have operated long-hauls from Oslo.
There have been rumours about re-starting the OSL-EWR route though.

Bullshit. SAS' strategy is to get as many passengers from Norway and Sweden to go via Copenhagen as possible, and there's nothing more to it.
Once I even had to go via Copenhagen to get to Vienna.

[staff]

Bullshit? You're kidding, right? If it was obvious that SAS would make a lot of money on a OSL-EWR or OSL-ORD route, don't you think they'd start it even though the main hub is in CPH? Why do you think there are 4-5 long haul routes out of ARN? The reason why SAS feeds its Norwegian long haul passengers via CPH (and ARN) is because it is not economically viable to operate a third long haul base at OSL.
Do you think SAS operates CPH and ARN (an not OSL) as long haul hubs just to tease Norwegians?

SAS long haul aircraft are too large for OSL, especially with Continental already operating a daily flight (albeit with a small narrowbody plane) to EWR. OSL:s other long haul flight is operated by PIA via Copenhagen.

SAS wouldn't start long hauls out of OSL (or GOT etc.) just because. This is about economics - not charity work.

[knilaus]

..

[Fab 5]

Originally Posted by Fab 5

I have put someone in charge of finding out what's going on with regard to these long-anticipated stats from CPH. Lets see what happens.

OK, I have managed to get someone to find out about this. The story is, that CPH is currently having som technical difficulties making it impossible to generate these numbers. They are working on a solution and numbers will be released as soon as possible.

[muster]

Originally Posted by staff

Bullshit? You're kidding, right? If it was obvious that SAS would make a lot of money on a OSL-EWR or OSL-ORD route, don't you think they'd start it even though the main hub is in CPH? Why do you think there are 4-5 long haul routes out of ARN? The reason why SAS feeds its Norwegian long haul passengers via CPH (and ARN) is because it is not economically viable to operate a third long haul base at OSL.
Do you think SAS operates CPH and ARN (an not OSL) as long haul hubs just to tease Norwegians?

SAS long haul aircraft are too large for OSL, especially with Continental already operating a daily flight (albeit with a small narrowbody plane) to EWR. OSL:s other long haul flight is operated by PIA via Copenhagen.

SAS wouldn't start long hauls out of OSL (or GOT etc.) just because. This is about economics - not charity work.

And this is why SAS have big problems today. If SAS dont start giving Norwegians A MUCH better long haul offer, we will stop flying SAS. Then SAS can say goodbye to one of the worlds economoical strongest customers. SAS are more or less a swedish/danish company, and by neglecting the norwegians they are making a BIG mistake!

[Fab 5]

Originally Posted by muster

And this is why SAS have big problems today. If SAS dont start giving Norwegians A MUCH better long haul offer, we will stop flying SAS. Then SAS can say goodbye to one of the worlds economoical strongest customers. SAS are more or less a swedish/danish company, and by neglecting the norwegians they are making a BIG mistake!

Come on...

[staff]

Norwegians will stop fly because Oslo is not a long-haul hub? What are you people, 4 years old?

[Svempa99]

Originally Posted by muster

And this is why SAS have big problems today. If SAS dont start giving Norwegians A MUCH better long haul offer, we will stop flying SAS. Then SAS can say goodbye to one of the worlds economoical strongest customers. SAS are more or less a swedish/danish company, and by neglecting the norwegians they are making a BIG mistake!

It's a free market, right? So if the Norwegian market is so lucrative there should already be a lot of airlines offering you long haul flights. From a consumer perspective I don't see the problem really.

[staff]

Exactly. The huge lucrative Norwegian long-haul market supports two airlines today. Continental with a small narrowbody airliner, and PIA which flies to Pakistan via Copenhagen.

If it had been economically viable, SAS (or other airlines) would have started long haul flights from Oslo. Simple as that.


To say that SAS problems are caused by the fact that they don't have more long haul flights from Oslo is absurd.
We better tell Alitalia, Delta Airliners etc. to quickly start many long hauls to the gold-mine Oslo so that they can quickly get back on their feet again!

[IceCheese]

Originally Posted by staff

Bullshit? You're kidding, right? If it was obvious that SAS would make a lot of money on a OSL-EWR or OSL-ORD route, don't you think they'd start it even though the main hub is in CPH? Why do you think there are 4-5 long haul routes out of ARN? The reason why SAS feeds its Norwegian long haul passengers via CPH (and ARN) is because it is not economically viable to operate a third long haul base at OSL.
Do you think SAS operates CPH and ARN (an not OSL) as long haul hubs just to tease Norwegians?

SAS long haul aircraft are too large for OSL, especially with Continental already operating a daily flight (albeit with a small narrowbody plane) to EWR. OSL:s other long haul flight is operated by PIA via Copenhagen.

SAS wouldn't start long hauls out of OSL (or GOT etc.) just because. This is about economics - not charity work.

I wasn't all saying it's a conspiracy in my previous post. SAS' choice was probably based on well-based knowledge of geography. With that said, economicly for SAS, they of course earn a lot more money when people has to take another SAS-flight to a hub-airport, than with the alternative.

And this is why SAS have big problems today. If SAS dont start giving Norwegians A MUCH better long haul offer, we will stop flying SAS. Then SAS can say goodbye to one of the worlds economoical strongest customers. SAS are more or less a swedish/danish company, and by neglecting the norwegians they are making a BIG mistake!

SAS mostly has problems today because people don't trust them (with all the conflicts), and this has been stated by theire brand new CEO.

Norwegians will stop fly because Oslo is not a long-haul hub? What are you people, 4 years old?

Norwegians will not stop flying, but Norwegian Air Shuttle will probably get a higher share of the market, if (when?) they start intercontinental traffic.

Exactly. The huge lucrative Norwegian long-haul market supports two airlines today. Continental with a small narrowbody airliner, and PIA which flies to Pakistan via Copenhagen.

If it had been economically viable, SAS (or other airlines) would have started long haul flights from Oslo. Simple as that.

To say that SAS problems are caused by the fact that they don't have more long haul flights from Oslo is absurd.
We better tell Alitalia, Delta Airliners etc. to quickly start many long hauls to the gold-mine Oslo so that they can quickly get back on their feet again!

Now you're just sarcastic. I would say, probably provocing you in the process, that many air companies somewhat are hesitant to try out the Scandinavian market exactly because of SAS and theire strong position here. This combined with the actual size of our region (population-wise) is why so few wants to start up any long-hauls from here. Frankfurt and other European main-hubs are not that far away either, so larger companies pretty much feel like we are covered, I suspect.

In the real world there is not much figthing over airports number 17, 19 and 20 in PAX in Europe. Still it's definitly undisputable that many more would chose to fly to more exotic places if they hadn't have to change planes 2-4 times during the travel.

[Fab 5]

Originally Posted by Svempa99

It's a free market, right? So if the Norwegian market is so lucrative there should already be a lot of airlines offering you long haul flights. From a consumer perspective I don't see the problem really.

I agree. Someone in this thread should read a book or two on micro economics.

[staff]

IceCheese,
Norwegian Air Shuttle is basically a lowcost carrier and does not really compete for the same passengers as SAS. SAS is a full service airline that earns most of its money on business travellers paying flexible fares and business class fares.
If Norwegian Air Shuttle starts long hauls it would be with aircraft packed to the grim with economy class seats to mainly tourist destinations.

This is also the reason why Scandinavian cities don't see too many foreign carries operating long hauls there. Scandinavian passengers are generally low yielding and not willing to pay higher fares. That is also the reason why there is only one airline that has a first class cabin to a Scandinavian city (Malaysian's fuel stop at ARN between KUL and EWR).

Considering the small amount of high yielding passengers in Scandinavia (in comparison to other markets), it is more convenient to gather those passengers at one or two large airports instead of spreading them out over smaller cities as well.
Singapore Airlines (a full service luxury airline serving pretty much only high yielding passengers) of course has Norwegian passengers on its flights, but not enough to warrant a flight between Singapore and Oslo. Instead they let SAS feed the high yielding passengers into CPH and from there they are flown to SIN with SQ.

One might think that because Scandinavia (and Norway in particular) are rich - there would be tons of people willing to spend top dollar on flights and hotels here. This is not the case - and that's why Scandinavia (with a small exception for Copenhagen and to a less degree Stockholm) doesn't see many international luxury hotel chains or premium airlines establishing here.

[Beg]

All of you talk bullshit....SAS would be a big ZERO without Norway and Norwegians...
We have more options than SAS and it means that we don't have to fly with SAS as most of you in Denmark and Sweden. I allways prefer Norwegian 'cause I'm sick of SAS Pay so much for the ticket Oslo-Frankfurt and don't even get a coke?!
Anyways, I never liked SAS because of their strategy ''Fly via CPH''. No thanks! I flew once in my life via CPH and will never again.

[staff]

I'm not sure if your post is supposed to be a joke or not...

[Vermeer]

Do any of you really believe that SAS survive the next five years? None of you can be that naive. CPN will be finished as the Scandinavian main airport when SAS is out of business. Swedes or Norwegians will get their own direct flights or go to Frankfurt, Amsterdam or London. Can’t see any other reason why Swedes and Norwegians should land at CPN if it wasn’t for them being loyal to their national air carrier, SAS.
Without SAS I suppose CPN will be the smallest of the three main Scandinavian airports, because I doubt Lufthansa. Air France, BA or KLM will use CPN as a Scandinavian hub.