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Old August 2nd, 2007, 05:41 AM   #2521
i_am_hydrogen
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Originally Posted by MetalliTooL View Post
What are caissons?
The short answer is that they are concrete tubes that are drilled and poured into the ground in order to provide a constellation of stable points upon which to lay the foundation of a building
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 05:44 AM   #2522
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^ Oh so it's the piling?
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 05:46 AM   #2523
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^Yes, piling is another way to describe it. But I believe the distinction between pilings and caissons is that caissons go much deeper into the ground.
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 05:52 AM   #2524
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Why don't they dig out the foundation first, before installing the caissons? What's the point of drilling through the ground that will be removed later anyway?
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:05 AM   #2525
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Can't we talk about something fun, like how Chicago Spire is going to have to move 700 initial units at 1200 bucks/sf before they can even start the superstructure in a market that's basically dead and will remain so because it's oversaturated...???

I am concerned this project, in such a visible location on the drive, is going to get half way up, and then is going to suddenly die...think Skybridge several times, or Ray Chin's project in Streeterville from a few years back. I understand the "special financing" everyone keeps talking about, but the units still have to sell. Kelleher is selling the equivalent of 6 condominium projects on one site in one phase. That's a lot of product.

I'd like to pose a question: Does the financial success of a project factor into our appreciation of it? Should it if we are considering the responsibility of developers and architects to contribute to successful urbanism? If architecture is at its core a service oriented profession, should an architect in some way be judged by how well he/she has "solved the problem"?

Thank you. I'll shut up and wait to get hammered now.
Simple. The $$$$/square feet will be fairly cheap for European standards....and given that the dollar very low right now compared to the Euro, buying a condo in a rising international city whose real estate is fairly cheap (even for US standards) is a pretty good investment for a European multimillionaire. Especially since it will become by far the tallest, not to mention the most iconic high-rise in North America. This is why this project is being aggressively marketed towards Europeans. I have no doubt that Kelleher will be able to find 700 rich Europeans to buy units.
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:10 AM   #2526
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I dont understand. Why do people say that this will be topped off before NYC's WTC 1? I mean, the new wtc tower has been under construction since april of last year and it is expected to start rising in the beginning of 08. It should take a while for the foundation work of CS to finish right and plus this tower is taller and has more floors! Why do we think this will be topped off before the new WTC?
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:16 AM   #2527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Isaac Newton View Post
Simple. The $$$$/square feet will be fairly cheap for European standards....and given that the dollar very low right now compared to the Euro, buying a condo in a rising international city whose real estate is fairly cheap (even for US standards) is a pretty good investment for a European multimillionaire. Especially since it will become by far the tallest, not to mention the most iconic high-rise in North America. This is why this project is being aggressively marketed towards Europeans. I have no doubt that Kelleher will be able to find 700 rich Europeans to buy units.
I agree. The weaknesses of the dollar and the relative cheapness of Chicago should not be underestimated. Helmet raises a good point, tho, and I have heard many others wonder the same thing about the numbers behind the Spire's financing.
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:21 AM   #2528
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Harumph! I'm not going to believe this project is going to fly until it tops out and begins to acquire a patina.

*folds arms while tapping foot*
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:32 AM   #2529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangarooMN09 View Post
I dont understand. Why do people say that this will be topped off before NYC's WTC 1? I mean, the new wtc tower has been under construction since april of last year and it is expected to start rising in the beginning of 08. It should take a while for the foundation work of CS to finish right and plus this tower is taller and has more floors! Why do we think this will be topped off before the new WTC?
From another fourm that asks the same question and answer...

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I have a feeling that this could possibly be done before the FT, it is catching up I'd say. This building is more private and straightforward (as straightforward as a 2000' building could be I guess) , but my point is that the Spire is not caught up in politics and delays and debates about crap. The FT has the city, the government all in it's face, not to mention other rather large projects going on at the same time right next to it.... (plus if you've looked on the WTC2 thread, they are delayed right now because of an old staircase still there!!! WTC2 is delayed a bit). For all of these reasons, plus the size of the Spire is 'skinnier' which means less materials per level to construct... I think the Freedom Tower may never be the country's tallest building. The city with the tallest building in our country will change from Chicago... to.... Chicago.

This of course is just my opinion, but makes sense to me!!!! They may rise kind of simultaneously though...
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:39 AM   #2530
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I'd like to pose a question: Does the financial success of a project factor into our appreciation of it?.
"appreciation" is too broad a term. Do you mean aesthetic appreciation? The answer would be, "no". If you mean commercial appreciation, like from the stand point of an investor, then obviously "yes". If you mean some combination of the two, then it depends on which one you weight more heavily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Yawn View Post
Should it if we are considering the responsibility of developers and architects to contribute to successful urbanism? If architecture is at its core a service oriented profession, should an architect in some way be judged by how well he/she has "solved the problem"?
When you put it this way, the answer is "no" IMO. Financial responsibility lies with those who stand to gain or lose on a project. Yeah, architecture is a service - design service, not financial.

It is nice for an architect to care, but if a developer is looking for financial guidance from his designer the project is never getting off the ground anyway.

As for whether developers themselves are responsible for bringing forth financially successful projects, um, that's the whole point. They are trying their best to bring the most financially "beautiful" buildings to our cities each and every day, OK?
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:49 AM   #2531
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i beleive that is ture too. but on the westside there are many talk about supertaalls topping out taller then the chispire. bu they will also face the govt, me dia etc.
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 06:55 AM   #2532
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Wow, Nice, Looking forward to more updates.
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 07:15 AM   #2533
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I'd love to - BUT - I have to work.



Give me a couple of weeks' notice and I could do it.

Mike
I just rechecked my schedule and I am indeed off on Saturday. Will it be worth it for me to make the trip? Is anyone else going to be there?

Mike
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 08:03 AM   #2534
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i beleive that is ture too. but on the westside there are many talk about supertaalls topping out taller then the chispire. bu they will also face the govt, me dia etc.
Oh? There are another proposal for taller skycrapers on the westside of New York City that will be taller than Chicago Spires?
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 08:23 AM   #2535
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HEY LOOK WE GOT A U/C ON THIS THREAD. NOW ITS OFFICIAL. !!!!


(what took ya so long)




everybody
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 08:36 AM   #2536
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I CAN'T WAIT TILL THIS ONE IS COMPLETED!
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 08:49 AM   #2537
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Happy days in Chicago
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 09:06 AM   #2538
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just getting back from a decent night out
only to discover that the spire is finally
finally under construction,

thank god





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Old August 2nd, 2007, 10:05 AM   #2539
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Originally Posted by SheistbugzzNY
i beleive that is ture too. but on the westside there are many talk about supertaalls topping out taller then the chispire. bu they will also face the govt, me dia etc.

Oh? There are another proposal for taller skycrapers on the westside of New York City that will be taller than Chicago Spires?



yes, there are many specualtions of supertalls, not including penn station, madison square garden all of that. within a month or so we'll ahve a few proposals, i dont know how tall they will be though. But they will be Tall
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Old August 2nd, 2007, 11:03 AM   #2540
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the title says under construction!!! The next megatall tower going up!!!!
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