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Old September 25th, 2007, 12:17 AM   #3341
44p
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thats nice progress since the 14th
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Old September 25th, 2007, 10:16 AM   #3342
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Hey they haven't even done the foundation, right? These things are being drilled BEFORE they start digging the foundation, right?
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Old September 25th, 2007, 01:46 PM   #3343
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Originally Posted by depressio View Post
Hey they haven't even done the foundation, right? These things are being drilled BEFORE they start digging the foundation, right?
Yes - the caissons go in first, then - normally - the mat is laid on top of those and poured - then the core and walls sit on the mat.

In this instance "top down" construction will be used for at least part of it. In this process the caissons are drilled first, then the below grade walls are sunk ( secant walls ) , the ground floor ( or 1st sub level ) is poured and then used to hold the below grade walls apart as the basement levels are excavated out from under the slab whith the floors being poured regularly to provide support to the secant walls.

The standard practice in Chicago is to flatten out the site so the mobile cranes can trundle about unimpeded. They drill and pour the caissons and then bury them again. Once all the caissons are in place this crew (CASE) packs up and goes on to the next project.
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Old September 25th, 2007, 06:38 PM   #3344
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A crane lovers paradise.

09/14/07
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Old September 25th, 2007, 06:41 PM   #3345
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A crane lovers paradise.

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Old September 25th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #3346
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great to see lots of activity on the site
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Old September 25th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #3347
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Originally Posted by Helmet Yawn View Post
I guess I'm not following the argument here. Are you guys saying that they're going to get more than 1,000 millionaire overseas buyers willing to drop upwards of 1 million dollars + to purchase a unit in Chicago solely for the bragging rites of owning a unit in a Calatrava building?
No, and I think any building that has that kind of business strategy outside of Dubai is doomed to failure. The vast majority will be American, but international buyers will make up a nontrivial percentage.

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I could see where guys like "Lord" Palumbo would own Farnsworth House by Mies Van der Rohe in Plano, Illinois for awhile, but are you all suggesting that owning a unit in this building will hold that same investor appeal on the basis of Calatrava's name? I personally don't see that happening. As much as I love it, Chicago is not Paris or New York.
If you're talking purely in terms of investers, then yes, his name does matter. Invesotrs care about their rate of return, and from that perspective, Streeterville is one of the hottest neighborhoods in Chicago, which itself is one of the hottest cities in the US in terms of real estate. Then you tack on signature architecture, America's fairly unique culture of highly-valuing real estate, and tax dodging abilities, both for foreigners and locals (via 1080 transformations, if I remember the tax code name right, which allows indefinite deferment of taxes on home sales so long as all of it is used to buy a home of greater value) and it keeps becoming a better and better investment. Comparisons against cities like Paris are irrelevant because, on your premise of these people being pure investors, urban amenities matter less as these are, at best, occasional residences (as these kind of wealthy investors will already have a home in their city of choice), and, in terms of return on investment, Chicago is a better deal than Paris.

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At the end of the day, it's kind of a shame that J. Paul Beitler didn't hire Calatrava instead of Pelli to design the telecom tower that he unveiled about 8 months ago. With the mayor's backing, Chicago could have gotten its Calatrava without the huge burden of a developer with no specific answers to financing questions and no actual floor plans needing to move more than 1,000 residential units at over 1,000 dollars per SF and up.
I personally care alot more about Chicago's urban health than pure architecture so I like the idea of 1700ish residents coming to Chicago's core than just having a tall piece of work. Moreover, as far as I'm concerned, you've done very little to convince me that there are legitimate financial worries, and it's not just you being pessimistic.

Anyway, on another note, I think that the international investor has been overstated. The Trump Int'l Hotel and Tower has shown that high prices (sort of) work in Chicago, and the Spire is a more pronounced signature building, worthy of a bigger premium. Keep in mind, also that mortgage rates will be falling soon, which will make the price disparity between the two even smaller, making the Spire an even more attractive for a well-to-do Chicagoan.
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Old September 25th, 2007, 11:15 PM   #3348
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yes great ,but do you know when they will start to build???
The site has been under construction for a few months now.

The building will strat rising above ground in 6 months or so ( AFAIK ).
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Old September 26th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #3349
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6 months? i really doubt that

im thinkin more like 10 months
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Old September 26th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #3350
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yes, i agree. 6 months would be a bit fast in my opinion
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Old September 26th, 2007, 12:51 AM   #3351
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yes, i agree. 6 months would be a bit fast in my opinion
Y? They don't have to dig out everything, just pouring a concrete plate!
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Old September 26th, 2007, 01:19 AM   #3352
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wats the time table for this bulding ?
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Old September 26th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #3353
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Like I tell my wife many times, Chicago is a great city and has many worldwide attractions. But, like Helmut said in his 9/23 posting, this isn't Paris or NYC. I lived here my whole life, been an ironworker 25 years, first job the skylite on the Jim Thompson building in 1983, but the foreign investor must have A LOT of disposable income to invest in a condo in the Spire. A further telling sign - if this was going to be the LEAST bit profitable - a General Contractor such as Bovis or McHugh or Walsh or Pepper, would have signed on by now. (and I would have found out who is supplying the glass and aluminum) But no, only silence from the GC community. They want to know -Where's the $$$?
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Old September 26th, 2007, 01:28 AM   #3354
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I happened to be in an unusual vantage point today:

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Old September 26th, 2007, 01:31 AM   #3355
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By the way Helmut, I knew J. Paul quite well in the 80's - he gave my wife a ride in his Testarossa, and my ironworker friends worked on his house in Wis. (or was it Mich.?) and he paid them union scale. He seems to me to be a honest developer (unlike B. Smith) who, as you said, could have done wonders with Calatrava, on a honest budget and expectations.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 08:50 AM   #3356
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Very impressive, Mr Downtown. Great shot!
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Old September 26th, 2007, 01:42 PM   #3357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feworkr View Post
Like I tell my wife many times, Chicago is a great city and has many worldwide attractions. But, like Helmut said in his 9/23 posting, this isn't Paris or NYC. I lived here my whole life, been an ironworker 25 years, first job the skylite on the Jim Thompson building in 1983, but the foreign investor must have A LOT of disposable income to invest in a condo in the Spire. A further telling sign - if this was going to be the LEAST bit profitable - a General Contractor such as Bovis or McHugh or Walsh or Pepper, would have signed on by now. (and I would have found out who is supplying the glass and aluminum) But no, only silence from the GC community. They want to know -Where's the $$$?
I don't think you've quite got this right. The generals that I know are chomping at the bit. Walsh did a lot of preliminary work with The Fordham Company but they're now back in the pack.
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Old September 26th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #3358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Yawn View Post
I guess I'm not following the argument here. Are you guys saying that they're going to get more than 1,000 millionaire overseas buyers willing to drop upwards of 1 million dollars + to purchase a unit in Chicago solely for the bragging rites of owning a unit in a Calatrava building?

I could see where guys like "Lord" Palumbo would own Farnsworth House by Mies Van der Rohe in Plano, Illinois for awhile, but are you all suggesting that owning a unit in this building will hold that same investor appeal on the basis of Calatrava's name? I personally don't see that happening. As much as I love it, Chicago is not Paris or New York.

At the end of the day, it's kind of a shame that J. Paul Beitler didn't hire Calatrava instead of Pelli to design the telecom tower that he unveiled about 8 months ago. With the mayor's backing, Chicago could have gotten its Calatrava without the huge burden of a developer with no specific answers to financing questions and no actual floor plans needing to move more than 1,000 residential units at over 1,000 dollars per SF and up.
You are the most negative individual on this site. Wasn't it you that stated that the Waterview would never rise???
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Old September 26th, 2007, 04:11 PM   #3359
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Sept 26 - AM

View from above
[ full set - zoomable http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r..../400NLSDCSHeli ]

Inner Secant Wall ( marshmallows )





Outer Secant wall




Lonely morning in DuSable park



Barge moored at the lock.

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Old September 26th, 2007, 06:36 PM   #3360
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Nice update pics! (again)
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