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Old January 30th, 2007, 12:44 AM   #461
harvesterofsorrows
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He'll probally give it the antenna back.

Might as well build a statue. That's all the spire ever was.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 12:51 AM   #462
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So if you could design the tower what would you do?
Calatrava already did it with his first draft.



That is pure poetry in the form of a skyscraper. But I guess it just wasn't possible given Chicago's inexpensive real estate prices. So what did the developer do? He told Calatrava to increase the floor space by some ridiculous percentage. He told him to eliminate the spire on top. And he told him that the building still had to twist. So instead of giving Calatrava the opportunity to start over and create something fresh and beautiful, the developer created a set of demands that resulted in the total bastardization of the original, poetic design.



If this is poetry, then its a pornographic limerick.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 01:05 AM   #463
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That wasn't the first draft though. That version had a height increase, so I guess you could consider it a bastardization as well.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 01:07 AM   #464
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Why does Chicago have so many haters?
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Old January 30th, 2007, 01:16 AM   #465
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Same reason Dubai does...jealousy.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 01:58 AM   #466
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That wasn't the first draft though. That version had a height increase, so I guess you could consider it a bastardization as well.

My mistake, it may not have been the original design but it was certainly not a bastardization of the concept. It was an improvement through slight tweaking of the design. Improvement and bastardization, very different words with very different meanings.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 02:16 AM   #467
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Same reason Dubai does...jealousy.

Jealousy? Very funny.

The truth is that I love Chicago. I've been more times than I can count and I've always enjoyed it. Its got a great skyline and Calatrava's first (or second) design would have have taken it to another level. It was better than any other proposed tower in the world, including all the WTC towers. Contrarily, this fourth design is just kind of crummy; and with it's massive size I think it would be a huge aesthetic mistake. To me it's as blatently obvious as the words I am typing. I'm surprised more Chicagoans aren't calling for a #5. Tell Calatrava to clear his mind (forget spirals, forget spires, and forget 2000 feet) and start over. Just make it beautiful again.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 02:34 AM   #468
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Why does one have to be a Chicago-hater if he doesn't like Sears? Or this spire-thing?

I reserve the right to love Chicago for dozens of other buildings, and not because of their heights.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 02:48 AM   #469
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HOTNESS!

i'm still very doubtful about this whole project, but when i see imagery like that,
i simply want to suspend all disbelief. this tower is from dreamland.

beyond breath-taking.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 06:29 AM   #470
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Interesting, with perhaps more positive indicators present than ever ... nevertheless ... skepticism abounds.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 07:02 AM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbz2ifc View Post
Why does one have to be a Chicago-hater if he doesn't like Sears? Or this spire-thing?

I reserve the right to love Chicago for dozens of other buildings, and not because of their heights.
Of course dislike of the spire is not tantamount to Chicago-hatred.

At the same time, come on! some hatreds are more transparent than others. Especially when they emanate from, say, NTC.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 07:24 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjeffries View Post
Calatrava already did it with his first draft.



That is pure poetry in the form of a skyscraper. But I guess it just wasn't possible given Chicago's inexpensive real estate prices. So what did the developer do? He told Calatrava to increase the floor space by some ridiculous percentage. He told him to eliminate the spire on top. And he told him that the building still had to twist. So instead of giving Calatrava the opportunity to start over and create something fresh and beautiful, the developer created a set of demands that resulted in the total bastardization of the original, poetic design.



If this is poetry, then its a pornographic limerick.
Well this isn't 'poetry', it's a tower, therefore your explanation doesn't work. Why put such an ugly spire on top of such an elegant building? To me, the spire would have killed the 'poetry' in the design of the building. Of course, again, this isn't 'poetry' so it doesn't matter.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #473
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Quote:
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Well this isn't 'poetry', it's a tower, therefore your explanation doesn't work. Why put such an ugly spire on top of such an elegant building? To me, the spire would have killed the 'poetry' in the design of the building. Of course, again, this isn't 'poetry' so it doesn't matter.
here you go...

Main Entry: po·et·ry
Pronunciation: 'pO-&-trE, -i-trE also 'po(-)i-trE
Function: noun
1 a : metrical writing : VERSE b : the productions of a poet : POEMS
2 : writing that formulates a concentrated imaginative awareness of experience in language chosen and arranged to create a specific emotional response through meaning, sound, and rhythm
3 a : something likened to poetry especially in beauty of expression b : poetic quality or aspect <the poetry of dance>
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Old January 30th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbz2ifc View Post
Why does one have to be a Chicago-hater if he doesn't like Sears? Or this spire-thing?

I reserve the right to love Chicago for dozens of other buildings, and not because of their heights.
because some just want to be an attention wh0re and they just say the same thing in 10 different posts in the same thread. say your piece and then get out. there are repercussions for the foolish acts of others.
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Old January 30th, 2007, 09:17 PM   #475
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Hey, Sears and Version 'D' looks good. Calling them "fugly-ass" and the other a "bastardization" is wee bit too much of a stretch don't you think? A "If its not beautiful/elegant, its ugly and repulsive" black and white view?

Going to the Chicago boards it seems like the majority of the natives give the to version 'D', and I'm hoping the neighborhood organizations as well as the local govt approve this spire.

Still, this building does not get as much unnecessary flak as 1WTC (which is a sweet tower itself)
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Old January 30th, 2007, 11:18 PM   #476
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Hey, Sears and Version 'D' looks good. Calling them "fugly-ass" and the other a "bastardization" is wee bit too much of a stretch don't you think? A "If its not beautiful/elegant, its ugly and repulsive" black and white view?

Going to the Chicago boards it seems like the majority of the natives give the to version 'D', and I'm hoping the neighborhood organizations as well as the local govt approve this spire.

Still, this building does not get as much unnecessary flak as 1WTC (which is a sweet tower itself)
I understand what you are saying and I appreciate you addressing my points instead of hurling insults at me. In my defense, I never said this tower was "repulsive," or even less than average. It's a pretty good looking building. And bastardization is a derogatory term only in relation to the original design. If you start off with one of the greatest skyscraper designs ever, then even a significant reduction in quality leaves you better than most. My contention is that pretty good can become pretty bad on such a massive scale.

And calling the Sears Tower and the old Twin Towers fugly may have been little harsh, but that is my just preference in building design. I'll stop posting now if no one wants to continue dialogue with me.

Good luck Chicago!
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Old January 31st, 2007, 12:49 AM   #477
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Well, people have different tastes and it's very hard to convince someone to not like something. It's not like you can provide a mathematical proof showing how their opinion is wrong. Sure not everyone will like it but that's normal. I think it's a stunner and they need to start building this asap and a lot of others think this way as well (not only because of height btw, most people hated version C even though it had the same height). Therefore if so many people like it it mustn't be such a bad tower afterall
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Old January 31st, 2007, 02:40 AM   #478
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i really hope it gets built. It pushes Chicago into a new era, we are in the 21st century, nobody should forget that. how do we expect to be moving into the future if we alienate buildings that look alien to us...that is not cool. My point is that hopefully, cities like Chicago will continue to construct these NEW, DIFFERENT towers, otherwise in a few years another city is going to construct it. While everyone back in Chi-town is going to be living in the old age with simple boxes and telling themselves as to why they didn't build a tall spire.
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Old January 31st, 2007, 05:12 AM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjeffries View Post
I understand what you are saying and I appreciate you addressing my points instead of hurling insults at me. In my defense, I never said this tower was "repulsive," or even less than average. It's a pretty good looking building. And bastardization is a derogatory term only in relation to the original design. If you start off with one of the greatest skyscraper designs ever, then even a significant reduction in quality leaves you better than most. My contention is that pretty good can become pretty bad on such a massive scale.

And calling the Sears Tower and the old Twin Towers fugly may have been little harsh, but that is my just preference in building design. I'll stop posting now if no one wants to continue dialogue with me.

Good luck Chicago!
I don't think you should discontinue dialogue. You just have a different opinion of some of the people here. Sometimes people, including myself, get a little defensive. That fugly comment didn't help though . Anytime you put down WTC and Sears there's likely to be people unhappy about that. On a different thread, we had a little disagreement. You must not have realized but you quoted a quote that was talking about the Sears and Hancock and said that they were ugly. I took it a little personel and fired back. I now know that you were talking about Sears and Burj Dubai. But in any event, you should be allowed to have your opinion, as long as you are not biased, which it does not look at all like you are
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Old January 31st, 2007, 07:16 AM   #480
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Why does Chicago have so many haters?
I don't hate Chicago lol. In fact I used to live there. It's a nice city. I just think this tower needs some improvement.
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