daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 9th, 2009, 10:23 PM   #9041
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi649 View Post
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....calatrava.html

October 09, 2009

Spire awaits the next twist; reports of tower's death premature, says Calatrava

Dreams die hard, especially those of the jumbo skyscraper variety.

When Santiago Calatrava was in town last week for a lecture titled “Beyond the Spire,” I figured he was ready to stick an R.I.P. sign on his plan for the Chicago Spire, the famously unbuilt condo tower that would have twisted 2,000 feet into the sky at 400 N. Lake Shore Drive.

Wrong.

Calatrava counseled patience, saying he has done railway stations that have taken as long as 13 years to complete. The Spire was announced only four years ago. “My personal wish is that it is not dead,” he said.

The architect and engineer, a Spanish native who lives in New York City, has also run into turbulence at ground zero, where his World Trade Center transit hub is far over budget and behind schedule. But Calatrava is keeping his head above water during these trying economic times.

He just opened a smashing new high-speed train hub in Belgium. He’s part of a team that’s designing a big makeover of Denver’s airport. Last summer, the University of South Florida Polytechnic announced that he had been hired to design a new science and technology building on its Lakeland, Fla., campus, not far from Frank Lloyd Wright’s Florida Southern College.

“We have had some adjustment,” Calatrava said, acknowledging that he has had to make some layoffs in his three offices (Zurich, New York and Valencia, Spain). “But in general, I have to say things are going not bad.”

His lecture was a highlight of Wednesday’s opening of the nonprofit Instituto Cervantes of Chicago, which promotes the teaching of Spanish and Spanish culture. The talk, which I moderated, was a chance to get an update on all things Calatrava, especially the Spire.

Construction on the tower, which was to have been the nation’s tallest building, halted last year and the project remains an embarrassing hole in the ground. Many observers presume it to be dead.

But a spokeswoman for the Spire’s developer, Garrett Kelleher, said in a separate interview Wednesday that buyers are still coming into the project’s sales center, albeit in fewer numbers than before last year’s financial collapse, and that Kelleher has even arranged for some financing in the last few months.

“We’re definitely making headway,” said the spokeswoman, Kim Metcalfe, though she acknowledged that no date is set for construction to resume.

In addition, Metcalfe said, Kelleher has not settled with Spire contractors who filed liens against his Shelbourne Development Group Inc. Calatrava, for his part, is seeking more than $11 million in payments.
With the Spire at best an iffy proposition, I asked Calatrava after his talk if he thought the tower might be built instead in some skyscraper-happy Persian Gulf emirate.

No, he said, explaining that the Spire had been tailored to the Chicago riverfront and lakefront — an answer I took as a promise that he will only build the Spire in Chicago.

In an interview before his lecture, we discussed the troubles besetting his ground zero transit hub, whose above-ground, steel-and-glass pavilion bears a superficial resemblance to Calatrava’s addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum.

The project’s cost has ballooned to $3.2 billion and it is now not expected to be completed until 2014, five years after the original projected completion date.

The project, Calatrava said, is far more daunting than the pavilion would suggest. It has enormously long underground concourses and connections to a veritable thicket of subway lines. It had to be redesigned, with an added emphasis on security, after the terrorist attacks in Madrid and London.

In general, Calatrava said, “these horizontal buildings are enormously complex” because they must navigate an underground maze of city services and utilities.

Despite his troubles at ground zero, Calatrava is still widely recognized as a master railway station and bridge builder. The Guardian of London just hailed his new Belgian train station as “majestic, daring — and a destination in itself.”

I asked Calatrava to imagine that he were sitting in a room with Barack Obama and had a chance to advise the president on America’s infrastructure program. What lessons would he draw from his projects?

His answer was both wise and modest. He said he would ask Obama to look at Golden Gate Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, Rockefeller Center and other great American structures, particularly those that were built in hard times. These public works and buildings are evidence of American boldness and resolve, he said, quoting Franklin Roosevelt: “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
What did I tell everyone? People need to cool their jets and be patient. I don't think they’re going to let this one die so easily. People want apart of this tower because of Calatrava, it sells itself even in a financial crisis.
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 9th, 2009, 10:30 PM   #9042
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFDalton View Post
"My personal wish is that it's not dead"? Well, it is his baby. And he hopes to get paid. Calatrava is in no position to determine the fate of this project and his carefully-chosen and completely neutral comment doesn't imply he knows anything or has discussed anything recently with Kelleher's team. Nor does it change my belief that this thing is indeed dead.

The spokeswoman's comments are boilerplate developer fluff, delivered by someone who is desperately clinging to her job. Completely meaningless. Did the reporter really expect her to say the project is hanging on by a thread or that you can hear crickets chirping in his sales center? In fact, her comments were so austerely "optimistic" for a real estate salesperson as to suggest she knows it's dead too.

In short, there's nothing new or optimistic in that report. My speculation is that they just need a little more time to determine the trend line after the Olympics loss before they pull the plug. Dreams like this do die hard.
You are so ignorant it's not even funny. They're selling units and have new finances lined up, and that's not good enough for you!...
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 10th, 2009, 03:21 AM   #9043
CrazyAboutCities
Registered User
 
CrazyAboutCities's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 8,549
Likes (Received): 240

I knew this project is not dead!!! I wish he will tell us when he will start construction again on Chicago Spire.
CrazyAboutCities no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 10th, 2009, 08:56 PM   #9044
chicagogeorge
Registered User
 
chicagogeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South suburban Chicago
Posts: 5,284
Likes (Received): 893

Quote:
Calatrava counseled patience, saying he has done railway stations that have taken as long as 13 years to complete. The Spire was announced only four years ago. “My personal wish is that it is not dead,” he said.
How many of those railway stations cost 3.2 billion dollars to build.....


Imho,

given all the stumbling blocks in front of the project, the Spire will not be completed in 2014 or in 2044 for that matter....
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
chicagogeorge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2009, 01:48 AM   #9045
wheelingman
Pittsburgh rocks!!
 
wheelingman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wheeling, West Virginia
Posts: 899
Likes (Received): 9

Chicago's skyline is so great already anyways. Who really cares.
__________________
Chicago rules!
I love Pittsburgh
Toronto is great!!
Montreal is unique!!
wheelingman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2009, 10:55 PM   #9046
friendsofthecity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,929
Likes (Received): 690

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
I knew this project is not dead!!! I wish he will tell us when he will start construction again on Chicago Spire.
If you are seeking any assumption, that is OK. I don't think Calatrava will be able to give you a fixed date on when the construction will commence.For the main time, I would like to speculate that the construction can only take place after the end of the financial crisis.
friendsofthecity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 12:43 AM   #9047
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by friendsofthecity View Post
If you are seeking any assumption, that is OK. I don't think Calatrava will be able to give you a fixed date on when the construction will commence.For the main time, I would like to speculate that the construction can only take place after the end of the financial crisis.
Perhaps, but at the very least Shelbourne has financial support from the construction unions. I would estimate up to 1 billion dollars, especially considering Chicago's loss of the Olympics. The ALCU was going to invent 500 million in the Olympic village, but that obviously fell through. The Spire is now the sole big khuna. Chicago losing the Oylmpics could actually force this building to be built.
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #9048
Dr. Mike
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
Likes (Received): 1

Is the AFL-CIO investment real?
Dr. Mike no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 07:35 PM   #9049
friendsofthecity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,929
Likes (Received): 690

I am rest assured ALCU is very serious in securing financial backing for the project by an insder yet, not too soon.On Shelbourne support, I don't think that will be coming along this year(unions are grappling at the moment with issues of the recession). My obvious observation would be construction is likely to start after recovery from the financial mess.
friendsofthecity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #9050
friendsofthecity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,929
Likes (Received): 690

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnobsemajdnob View Post
For those (including Calatrava) who are optimistic about the Spire, I must reveal a trememdous deal on a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale.

What has that got to do with securing fund for the Chicagospire?
friendsofthecity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 07:40 PM   #9051
Basincreek
Contrary Lite
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tuolumne City, CA
Posts: 544
Likes (Received): 55

Unless they plan on heating this building by burning books I don't think the ACLU cares much about the project one way or the other.
Basincreek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #9052
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
Unless they plan on heating this building by burning books I don't think the ACLU cares much about the project one way or the other.
Construction workers need work, and during the recession there is none. That's why they were going to invenst pension money in the project, it's the Spire is the only project on the board that is large enough to make a difference.
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 08:48 PM   #9053
simulcra
Cynical post-collegiate
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 937
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Mike View Post
Is the AFL-CIO investment real?
It seems like it's been way too long for it to be real.

Kelleher is sure being the optimist, and I would like to believe him, but if he *still* hasn't settled the liens against his project, then

Though the Irish goverment has guaranteed all bank loans. The IMF/World Bank calculates that this could be a horrible liability for the country (potentially 250% of Ireland's GDP could be caught up in this liability), but at least this means that whatever financing Kelleher was able to put together is still going to be ok (at the expense of the Irish taxpayer).
__________________
Mmm... forbidden donut...
simulcra no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 10:41 PM   #9054
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnobsemajdnob View Post
Pension fund investors care about their return on investment to the investors to whom they owe a fiduciary duty. They're not concerned about providing jobs for construction workers.
http://chicagoist.com/2009/03/24/a_spire_revival.php
Quote:
Tom Villanova, president of the Chicago and Cook County Building Trades Council, told the Tribune that the talks, which began earlier this year, are in the "embryonic stage," but there's hope. Said Villanova, "The main thing is jobs. We can use our own funds to benefit members. The Spire is going to be five years of construction, which is just phenomenal for us. It's thousands of jobs."
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2009, 11:32 PM   #9055
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnobsemajdnob View Post
I don' doubt that the union wants jobs. I simply stated that anyone that provides funding simply cares about its investment and not about providing jobs.
But that's what the article just said, providing jobs.
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #9056
_Barca_
Registered User
 
_Barca_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 582
Likes (Received): 73

Why this thread have more than 6 posts per day???
_Barca_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2009, 12:58 AM   #9057
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnobsemajdnob View Post
I understand that.

It would provide jobs. However, no one is going to finance this any time soon.
Well that's what everyone says, but I don't think it's such a big impossibility. Someone out there has to throw their hat in for such a stunning building. There are skyscrapers getting built taller than this around the world, by the dozen. What makes Chicago any less than the others?
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2009, 02:43 AM   #9058
spectre000
Moderator
 
spectre000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 7,906
Likes (Received): 5170

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
Well that's what everyone says, but I don't think it's such a big impossibility. Someone out there has to throw their hat in for such a stunning building. There are skyscrapers getting built taller than this around the world, by the dozen. What makes Chicago any less than the others?
Onn, solely building this tower on its design merits is not going to cut it for investors/buyers. At the end of the day, if and when completed, this building needs to make money for all parties. For the homebuyers, Shelbourne, and the banks. The other "trophy" towers built around the world in the last 10 years were built for ego (ie Burj Dubai, Taipei 101, Petronas Towers). Towers like Taipei 101 had a very high vacany rate for several years after it was completed. But it didn't matter to anyone because it was just built to showcase the country and be a record setter.

That's not what the Spire represents. Sure it'll be the tallest in America. But its success or failure must take into account the economic benefit. Will all the parties make money on it? If the answer is "No", then it shouldn't be built. The days of buying the "McMansions" and Americans living beyond their means is over. Chicago invented the skyscraper, it has Big Willie and Big John, it doesn't need to prove anything to anybody.
spectre000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2009, 04:10 AM   #9059
Onn
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The United States
Posts: 1,544
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
Onn, solely building this tower on its design merits is not going to cut it for investors/buyers. At the end of the day, if and when completed, this building needs to make money for all parties. For the homebuyers, Shelbourne, and the banks. The other "trophy" towers built around the world in the last 10 years were built for ego (ie Burj Dubai, Taipei 101, Petronas Towers). Towers like Taipei 101 had a very high vacany rate for several years after it was completed. But it didn't matter to anyone because it was just built to showcase the country and be a record setter.

That's not what the Spire represents. Sure it'll be the tallest in America. But its success or failure must take into account the economic benefit. Will all the parties make money on it? If the answer is "No", then it shouldn't be built. The days of buying the "McMansions" and Americans living beyond their means is over. Chicago invented the skyscraper, it has Big Willie and Big John, it doesn't need to prove anything to anybody.
But it's a Calatrava Tower, I don't know how it could not make money for all sides after everything is said and done? Do you know how much some of these residential buildings can grow in value? This is not just any old tower, it's a living museum. It's priceless. It's not just about the height, it's the building as a whole.

Last edited by Onn; October 14th, 2009 at 10:43 PM.
Onn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2009, 08:14 AM   #9060
Ni3lS
Moderator
 
Ni3lS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 16,465
Likes (Received): 3423

The guide of the Architectural boat tour I took this morning told me that he read that article about Calatrava's visit in Chicago yesterday. At least it's something. I saw the death construction site this morning and it looks really sad, they better keep on going. Same thing with the Waterview tower. Ugly 10 story concrete structure in the middle of downtown.

BUILD IT OR DEMOLISH IT.
__________________
MY SHOWCASE
FLICKR / MY TRAVELS:
[2016] > Norway, Valencia, Arvidsjaur, Innsbruck, Moselvalley, Geneva, Lisbon, Basel, Vosges, Munich, Trieste, Barcelona, Nürburgring, Frankfurt, Spa, Berlin, Wuppertal, Dortmund, Como, Monaco, Saint-Tropez, Tegernsee, Hamburg, Lübeck, Madrid, Stuttgart, Faro, Hochgurgl
[2017] > Düsseldorf, Mallorca, Geneva, Annecy, Montafon, Vorarlberg, Barcelona, Zürich, Crete, Lisbon, Cascais, Málaga, Ronda, Dolomiti, Sistiana, Kitzbühel
Ni3lS no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
chicago, santiago calatrava, spire, tallest, tower

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu