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Old January 16th, 2010, 03:36 AM   #9481
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I don't think they are slaves. A slave is somobody who was taken away and made to work without pay. I mean we did it against people's wish. So to call people who come on their own and get paid (yes I know it is low wage but still paid) more than they would get in their own country isn't exactly slavery.

Yes they should be treated better and have more rights, but to call them slaves isn't describing the situation. Washington DC on the other hand was built by slaves. Dubai was built by courageous men who are willing to put up with around $2 a day so they can send home. I am not sure that defines slavery. Cheap labour... yes. Slavery... not quite.

Correct me if am wrong.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #9482
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thanks again for the pictures harry. realy alot of ice in the hole now, must be a record.

btw, that lakeshore drive isn't very pretty, is there any plans to put it in a tunnel or something?
Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 02:10 AM   #9483
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Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again.
Big Dig disaster didn't stop Seattle at all. Seattle is going to have "Little Dig" to replace Alaskan Viaduct (elevated highway on Seattle waterfront).Construction expected to begin next year and be completed in around 2015. I heard Portland, Oregon is considering to do "Big Dig" to bury all downtown freeways as well. I think Chicago might consider that someday. Who knows?
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Old January 18th, 2010, 06:42 AM   #9484
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Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again.
The worst issue with The Big Dig was the subterranean water that seeped into everything and drove constuction costs to astronomical levels. Chicago has the same problem. There are numerous tunnels beneath the Loop and serious flooding has ocurred. To do a Big Dig so close to that mess would be foolish. Seattle has seismic issues as does Portland, to go with the nearby water. They went with the best political option, not the best engineering one.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #9485
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Washington DC on the other hand was built by slaves. Dubai was built by courageous men who are willing to put up with around $2 a day so they can send home. I am not sure that defines slavery. Cheap labour... yes. Slavery... not quite.
Correct me if am wrong.
Parts of DC were built by slaves including the WH and Capitol. However in 1865 the population was around 75k where later at its peak it was near 800k so clearly most of the city was not built by slavery.

I would say indentured servitude qualifies for Dubai. Many owed a nearly a years wages for the processing and tickets just to get them to Dubai. Then when there many had paychecks and passports withheld, salary terms decreased, and put in awful work/housing conditions. Anyway, this isn't about that building so talk should continue on about the CS.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 11:38 PM   #9486
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The worst issue with The Big Dig was the subterranean water that seeped into everything and drove constuction costs to astronomical levels. Chicago has the same problem. There are numerous tunnels beneath the Loop and serious flooding has ocurred. To do a Big Dig so close to that mess would be foolish. Seattle has seismic issues as does Portland, to go with the nearby water. They went with the best political option, not the best engineering one.
Other problems included poor supervision of the construction, corruption that allowed contractors to use inferior materials to increase their profit margin and politicians and union officials who were always bickering. The biggest problem with any project of the scope is control and that was totally lost in the case of Boston. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like Portland and or Seattle look at the engineering aspects carefully, just the geopolitical ones.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 04:25 AM   #9487
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Debating the beauty or non-beauty of the WTC, photoshop thought experiments in hypertall height, labour situations in Dubai and during the construction of Washington DC, Boston's Big Dig and similar projects in Seattle and Portland, gotta love how this page covers pretty much every topic except the Chicago Spire...
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 12:52 AM   #9488
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this is the old picture of the site from wikipedia, taken in '63. I realy don't recignize the place. where would the hole be in this picture, is it in the left on that "peninsula" in the background?
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 03:52 AM   #9489
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this is the old picture of the site from wikipedia, taken in '63. I realy don't recignize the place. where would the hole be in this picture, is it in the left on that "peninsula" in the background?
Approximately here - thanks for the photo - brings back memories - the billboard was a wild climb



Another view - 1937


and 1941
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 05:19 AM   #9490
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It is amazing to see how much that part of downtown Chicago changed since then.
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 09:32 PM   #9491
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what I thought was trucks and stuff parked down at the bottom of the '63 picture is actually lot's of railway cars (didn't see it 'cus of the low resolution picture). The area have change dramatically since then marinas, skyscapers and stuff, we even have a big hole
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Old January 23rd, 2010, 09:47 PM   #9492
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It is amazing to see how much that part of downtown Chicago changed since then.
Definitely for the better!
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Old January 24th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #9493
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still lets build the darn thing
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Old January 24th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #9494
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still lets build the darn thing
lets get yhis off the ground
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #9495
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well someone need to borrow that kelleher guy some money. If I only had a few hundred million in the bank I might offer him good intrest rates on a loan hehe. We've been staring down this hole for two years now I realy realy want this thing to get build.

There's been so little news from the developers(no news from anyone realy), and I'm asking myself if no news is good news? or if that just means that this project is slowly dying...
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:40 AM   #9496
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There's been so little news from the developers(no news from anyone realy), and I'm asking myself if no news is good news? or if that just means that this project is slowly dying...
I would think no news is good news, people have been saying the project is slowly dieing for 2 years now. So, you know...you would think it would have died by now. I feel this time next year we will still be here with a hole in the ground and not much news. But I assume once the market recovers they probably will build it.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:14 PM   #9497
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build it.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 08:21 AM   #9498
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Definitely for the better!
Yes. Only one thing it will get much better when Chicago Spire becomes reality! Still keeping my fingers crossed for this one.
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Old January 27th, 2010, 03:48 PM   #9499
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How much money, per month, does it cost to 'let it sit' Vs. interest on a loan (at today's ridiculously low rates) for the construction?
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Old January 29th, 2010, 05:13 AM   #9500
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Jan 28

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