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Old February 7th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #9841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
The price points needed to make this break even, let alone, make a profit, simply are not attainable in Chicago. Even if they were, there are not enough people in Chi who could (or would) pay in excess of $3k/sf. No offense, but people from London, Paris, Rome, HK, etc have no interest in buying in the US outside of NY, SF, Miami, and LA.

Moreover, the amount pledged is an utter fraction of the construction budget, and absent massive sales at price points many times greater than anything Chi has ever seen, no one will fund a construction loan.

Something will rise here, but not this.
What?!? People from outside the US don't want to live in Chicago? That's awfully general and just plain wrong. Chicago has one of the biggest communities of Chinese immigrants in the US. It's the nations 3rd largest city. Hell the developer of the site is from Ireland and lived and worked in Chicago before he moved back to Ireland.

Lets not forget that any change of direction from the approved design at this point makes the development take more time and increases it's cost... new designs means paying an architect and then getting city approval again which could mean another few revisions.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:08 PM   #9842
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Originally Posted by Trex-md View Post
Yeah I'm sure there are plenty of people in the us alone that would put up that kind of money for a unit here... I'm mean there are literally millions of millionaires in the us.

Yeah that's a bit over the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Architecture lover View Post
Well it's looking pretty cool, but I really can't find it into the Chicago's skyline. It's way too different from everything else we've already seen in Chicago and I do think that it will look like it's not respecting the rest of the skyline and the worst is that the rest of the skyline will look like it does not respect this huge beauty, they really dont fit one each other. So maybe I would like to see some design change.
I kinda agree with this, I don't know how it will fit in the skyline with this design and height.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:11 PM   #9843
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Ambitious project, but reasonable ? IMHO 600m it s too tall for a condo tower, similar in Chicago or otherwhere. Perhaps if the project shrinks on 250-300m, than the Chicago spire will have more opportunity.

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... No offense, but people from London, Paris, Rome, HK, etc have no interest in buying in the US outside of NY, SF, Miami, and LA.
Maybe privat identors dont buy so much in Chicago, but commercial foreign traders buy also in Chicago. But Commercial identors normally dont buy US luxus condos.

Last edited by Kleist D; February 7th, 2014 at 10:21 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:13 PM   #9844
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Edit.

Last edited by Architecture lover; April 5th, 2014 at 03:37 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #9845
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you cant really say it doesnt fit from most angles it looks like a center piece .it kinda deserves its own spot in the skyline
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #9846
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Wow how exciting.!
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #9847
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Originally Posted by Architecture lover View Post
I tried to understand it many times before but it just does not fit with the already build skyline in any way. It's not that the tower is ugly, not at all, but I am hoping to see something more acceptable for Chicago's skyline.
Yeah Santiago Calatrava is no Robert AM Stern. He doesn't seem to pay much if any attention to the architectural context of his buildings... On the other hand the building does seem like it's in the same architectural family as many Bertrand Goldberg designs. I'm specifically thinking Marina City, River City, and the Old Prentice Women's Hospital.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #9848
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Edit.
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Last edited by Architecture lover; April 5th, 2014 at 03:37 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:05 PM   #9849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim1807 View Post
Yeah that's a bit over the top.

There are 5.2 million households in the US with a net worth of over $1 million (2012 data).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...aires/2811571/


This report says the number is 9 million:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1290334

Regarding this tower, Calatrava's involvement almost guarantees substantial cost overruns. Knowledge of that will make securing the financing harder. I'd love to see this built, but I'm still highly skeptical.

Last edited by McSky; February 7th, 2014 at 11:14 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:17 PM   #9850
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Ok that's more that I thought.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #9851
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More substantive article:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,6626095.story


"Given the ongoing recovery in the Chicago property market, the timing is better now than when this project commenced," Kelleher said in a statement. "I am delighted to have found a partner who believes in the project as passionately as I do."

Steven Ivankovich, Atlas’ CEO, said he was introduced by his bankers at Credit Suisse to Kelleher, and took an interest in the project because of his local roots and Kelleher’s vision. On paper, Atlas would be the majority partner in the joint venture, he said.

"I'm a Chicago guy," Ivankovich said. "I want to see Chicago regain its architectural crown. It's the greatest piece of development land I've ever seen."

The Spire site, at 400 N. Lake Shore Drive, has sat dormant since 2008, after the project was caught up in the financial and housing markets' meltdown. The project, whose cost was estimated to be at least $1.5 billion, went into foreclosure in 2010 and a protracted legal battle began in several courts systems. It remains a 76-foot by 110-foot hole in the ground.

Last summer, Related Midwest, whose Chicago properties include luxury rental buildings at 500 N. Lake Shore Drive and the soon-to-open 111 W. Wacker, and condos in the South Loop, bought at a discount $93 million of delinquent debt and penalties tied to the project from National Asset Management Agency in Ireland. In November, an affiliate of Related filed a federal lawsuit against Kelleher seeking more than $95 million in guarantees he made as part of the project.
Also, in October, an involuntary bankruptcy petition was filed against Shelbourne by Related and other creditors. Shelbourne was given the exclusive right until March 10 to propose a reorganization plan to the court.

Under the proposed investment agreement filed with the court Thursday, Shelbourne would try to have a reorganization plan confirmed by the court by Aug. 31. In addition to paying all claims, that plan could involve the transfer of some or all of the property to Atlas, according to the filing.

Atlas would be entitled to a break-up fee of about $4 million plus up to $750,000 in expenses if Shelbourne does not have a reorganization plan confirmed by the court by Aug. 31 and have it take effect before Oct. 31, among other conditions.

Since the housing market’s downfall, apartment high-rise construction has taken off in downtown Chicago, but lenders have been more reluctant to finance condominium projects.

Kelleher put $188 million of his own money into the project, and the unpaid loan, the debt now owned by Related, was used to purchase the land, Murphy said.

"From the day we broke ground, we were looking for construction financing and we were still in touch with those lenders," he said.

Before the project faltered, one-third of the units, which started in the $700,000 range and went up to $40 million, were pre-sold, according to Michael Golden, co-founder of @properties, the Spire’s exclusive local marketing agent. About half the buyers who signed contracts were from outside the United States.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #9852
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http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...s-a-jump-start

"We're in a position to reopen negotiations" with potential funding sources, said Tom Murphy, Chicago-based lawyer for Shelbourne.

The same tower is planned, Mr. Murphy said. "We think of it as the highest and best use" for the site. He also noted that the plans have been "fully vetted" and approved.

The 2.2-acre Spire site, along Lake Shore Drive at the Chicago River, has been tangled in litigation since Mr. Kelleher's previous plan to build a 2,000-foot-high skyscraper was foiled by the condo crash and real estate downturn.

There is a giant hole in the ground at the property that would have served as the foundation for the proposed skyscraper, but little else.

“Given the ongoing recovery in the Chicago property market, the timing is better now than when this project commenced,” Mr. Kelleher said in the statement. “I am delighted to have found a partner who believes in the project as passionately as I do.”

Atlas CEO Steven Ivankovich signaled that his company backs the idea of building according to the original Spire plan. “This is a building that deserves to be built and built in Chicago," he said in a statement. "Atlas is committed to making this happen."

New York-based Related Cos. acquired about $80 million in delinquent debt on the property last summer, and then filed an involuntary Chapter 11 petition last year.

"Our plan is to pay off everybody who's entitled to be paid off," Atlas' Mr. Ivankovich said in an interview with Crain's, referring to the creditors in the bankruptcy case, including Related.

"I think it's very simple. We're supporting the borrowing and they have the right to pay everybody off," he added. "From that point of view, unless there's a dispute over the payment amount I don't necessarily see any challenges."

Mr. Ivankovich estimated that creditors are owed about $115 million; the remaining $20 million would go toward recapitalizing Mr. Kelleher's entity.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:33 PM   #9853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trex-md View Post
Yeah I'm sure there are plenty of people in the us alone that would put up that kind of money for a unit here... I'm mean there are literally millions of millionaires in the us.
The US has more than 5,220,000 millionaire households alone. The number of millionaires is probably over 10,000,000: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...aires/2811571/

Edit: Didn't read McSky's post before commenting. Disregard.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #9854
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I'm really rooting for this one to be built, this is too great of a great design to be wasted, tho I'm not ready to get excited until it moves further along. Heck I wouldn't even mind if they shortened it as long as it gets built.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:42 PM   #9855
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I'm not going to hold my breath, although I'm glad the Chicago market is recovering. Chicago deserves more great towers, and the possibility of a 2,000 ft. tower in the U.S. is worth rooting for.

But I seriously dislike this design. I know a million others have called it similar, but I just can't get over it... "Drilldo" is all I can think of when I look at that thing.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:43 PM   #9856
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At what price do you think apartments will have to sell on an avg for the developer to break even or even make money for this spire??

Yes there are a lot of millionaires but how many of those millionaires can buy a $5 million apartment? cuz this is how much the units may have to avg to sell, maybe more.

The expected cost to construct this spire back in 2008 was a hefty $1.5 Billion and fast forward today and how much will it be to construct in todays costs??

Just because there is many millionaires doesn't mean they can afford to buy in this tower because this tower will have to sell units at a jacked up price to just break even.

I don't think the developer just wants to break even, they obviously wants to make a killing. With high expected construction cost it will be tough to break even imo. It may take years.

Condo's in Chicago in general may be seeing some good news but its success is the result from bargain hunters at this point snatching up properties at a DISCOUNT.
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Old February 7th, 2014, 11:52 PM   #9857
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Quote:
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The deal is to pay off creditors by the way, it's not financing for the building.
That's a very important fact to keep in mind.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 04:59 AM   #9858
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That's a very important fact to keep in mind.
but with millionares wanting to live in the tallest building in the western hemisphere ,this is perfect,and didnt they say something aboutit also being part hotel now?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 05:22 AM   #9859
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The Burj Khalifa sparked my interest in skyscrapers...but it was the Chicago Spire that made me fall in love. I'd like nothing more than to see the baby rise.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 09:19 AM   #9860
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People who don't think this fits in the Chicago skyline are crazy.
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