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Old September 17th, 2014, 02:07 AM   #10321
onewtclover
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I really cannot believe that:

1. You guys don't want this built because of its location

2. You people would prefer THAT MONSTROSITY (lol, just kidding) over the spire

Although this might not blend in like a chameleon, Chicago needs to move forward. This could define the future Chicago. And this is coming from a New Yorker. People might not like change, but it is inevitable.

And also, although 7SD might fit in the skyline a little bit better, three spires in a triangular formation with steel girders in between is too much. As Middle Island said, it would be perfect for Tokyo. (That was a compliment).

And even though it might look like a giant screwdriver, it probably won't look as out of place and as a screwdriver as it does in the renderings. How many developments have you seen where the final product turned out better in the rendering? The screwdriver bit is only looking at it from afar; from up close, it is a graceful, twisting tower.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #10322
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I would beg to disagree intensely about the Chrysler Building looking like a pencil. It most certainly does not. And this giant screwdriver will ALWAYS look like a giant screwdriver... I don't see graceful and twisting. It would be an embarrassment for Chicagoans to embrace this monstrosity. The other render is far from perfect but still much more preferable to a stinking giant screwdriver.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #10323
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until you live here, you can go climb a tree.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 06:10 PM   #10324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I would beg to disagree intensely about the Chrysler Building looking like a pencil. It most certainly does not. And this giant screwdriver will ALWAYS look like a giant screwdriver... I don't see graceful and twisting. It would be an embarrassment for Chicagoans to embrace this monstrosity. The other render is far from perfect but still much more preferable to a stinking giant screwdriver.
I don't think you know what a screwdriver is... In any case 'I don't like it cause it resembles some object I'm familiar with' is a very poor critique. Damn you Mies Van Der Rohe and your cereal box shaped buildings!

Screwdriver
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Old September 17th, 2014, 07:14 PM   #10325
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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
I don't think you know what a screwdriver is... In any case 'I don't like it cause it resembles some object I'm familiar with' is a very poor critique. Damn you Mies Van Der Rohe and your cereal box shaped buildings!

Screwdriver
I know what a screwdriver looks like... thank you very much for your condescension, though. It's also not just my description but one others have used, screwdrivers don't need to follow the particular shape you illustrated as the elementary school lesson of the day. If you like the design, good on you. I don't, and I don't care if you don't like the reason. If you're going to build by far the largest building in the Western Hemisphere, then for god's sakes it should NEVER look like a metal twizzler.
Or a screwdriver.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #10326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I would beg to disagree intensely about the Chrysler Building looking like a pencil. It most certainly does not. And this giant screwdriver will ALWAYS look like a giant screwdriver... I don't see graceful and twisting. It would be an embarrassment for Chicagoans to embrace this monstrosity. The other render is far from perfect but still much more preferable to a stinking giant screwdriver.
I've noticed it's always the classicists that always make these kinds of remarks... calling everything a monstrosity or whatnot. They're always the most vicious to buildings that dare to break the context, and thery always over-simplify everything to take all the merit out of any design that isn't just a giant pencil covered in ornaments. (See what I did?) Just observation.

There are a few differences, I would say. For example the top, and the way each 'groove' curves inwards.


And I wonder what is so bad about it having some resemblance to a drill bit. Are drills ugly? I'd say they're the most beautiful tool.

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; September 17th, 2014 at 07:47 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #10327
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I went to several sites about the tower and really am trying to gain some appreciation for it... it's really difficult though. I look at the overall Chicago skyline, and find out also it would be a private, all residential tower... no public component. It would be one huge screw you from the very top of the 1%... and I'm usually not a class driven person. No observation deck, no real connection with Chicago...oh yes, it's from Sergio Calatrava, that master of pretentious excess who designed that stupid shell and cavernous pointless PATH station for the new World Trade Center...figures! 4 billion dollars wasted.... won't even form a straight connection to the New York subway.

I do really hope something wonderful and original is designed for the specific property where the Spire was intended. I've never been to Chicago but have seen a number of photos of the skyline and individual towers. It's a great city and one of the best skylines in the US and ANYWHERE, for that matter. I'm a New York area guy and I hope if they want to go 2,000 ft.. that's exactly what they'll wind up doing. If they build the Spire as is, maybe I'll really come to love it but the thought of the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere being purely private, and like I said there's no observation tower even for the public to enjoy the breathtaking panorama ..that just doesn't sit well with me.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 07:57 PM   #10328
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Calatrava is an architectural and engineering genius, much like Eiffel was back in his day. And I think you and other classicists should be the last people to complain about 'pointlessness' or 'pretentiousness' in a design, since all historic buildings are covered in pointless ornamentation used to convey a superficial image of grandeur. And yes, that's why they were covered in ornament, look it up.

And most historic palaces and estates that the classicists admire so much are the very definition of 'screw you' from the 1%. While people were living in filthy wooden shacks hundreds of years ago, they were living in gold-encrusted castles. No public component...


And just so you know, the entire station cost 4 billion dollars, not just the dome.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #10329
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I've had a bit of craft in school and my father is a carpenter, and I'm quite sure you couldn't even get through a sheet of cotton with a drill bit the shape of the Chicago Spire.

ThatOneGuy, but wouldn't it be awesome if the Spire was built entirely for poor black people on food stamps? With the right stereo they could blast gangsta rap all over downtown.

Last edited by droneriot; September 17th, 2014 at 08:07 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #10330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
Damn you Mies Van Der Rohe and your cereal box shaped buildings!
I just finished reading From Bauhaus to Our House, and I highly recommended it to all skyscraper nerds. It's a really scathing, and hilarious, take-down of "modern" architecture. Plus it's really short. And yes, damn you Mies, Corbu, Gropius, etc.

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Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
And most historic palaces and estates that the classicists admire so much are the very definition of 'screw you' from the 1%. While people were living in filthy wooden shacks hundreds of years ago, they were living in gold-encrusted castles. No public component...
Yes! Thank you. So many of our world-famous architectural triumphs were originally privately owned and totally off-limits.

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ThatOneGuy, but wouldn't it be awesome if the Spire was built entirely for poor black people on food stamps? With the right stereo they could blast gangsta rap all over downtown.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #10331
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I know the station cost 4 billion dollars, not the dome. Calatrava has as many detractors as boosters.. his "genius" is more based on how he is viewed by a particular group. What's been made clear is that the whole station as built, capped by his frigging shell is a monument in excess that while cavernous will have little practical use.

Not talking about what was built in the past, the castles and whatnot. I see in New York City all these fancy towers, and architecturally I love most of them btw, being built for not merely well off but the super well off and it's getting too much. Many won't even have these fancy condos in the sky as their primary residences... too much is going towards not the 1% but the wealthiest top fraction and in Chicago this tower will be their screw you to the world. The Empire State Building, the original World Trade Center.... the public could go to the top and have the greatest views. It belonged to everyone.... Now we have grand vertical palaces where the wealthiest of all can gaze upon the ants, er public from their palatial ivory towers..... not even kings of old had views from over 1,000 ft above the city to thumb their noses at their subjects.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 08:32 PM   #10332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-biz View Post
I just finished reading From Bauhaus to Our House, and I highly recommended it to all skyscraper nerds. It's a really scathing, and hilarious, take-down of "modern" architecture. Plus it's really short. And yes, damn you Mies, Corbu, Gropius, etc.


Yes! Thank you. So many of our world-famous architectural triumphs were originally privately owned and totally off-limits.


What was in the past doesn't mean we should extend to our time. In those days, the kings and aristocracy had their place, and the rest of the common schmucks had theirs. We shouldn't emphasize even more imposing towers of private triumphalism over the common. Or at least those with less than ten figure incomes, lol.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #10333
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Don't get me wrong, I think income inequality is a major problem and a big contributor to practically every social problem we have in the US. There are no simple solutions, but certainly education, tax, and political reform are all necessary.

However... I'm also passionate about tall buildings and believe that developers should be able to build what they want as long as it's legal. It's a bit of a personal conundrum. I'm working on it.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #10334
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Those of you who (at least appear to) despise the rich or who feel that this tower is a big “screw you”: Would one of you explain WHY this should be a public amenity? WHY it shouldn't be exclusive? WHY those in this society who exceed shouldn't live however they want? Is it simply because this building is tall? Is it because it is so critical that the general public has another vantage point in which to see the city?

What about those who can't afford ticket prices for the observation decks in the Empire State Building, or World Trade Center or Willis Tower? It's really a big "screw you" from those who can. Right?

What is income inequality? Seriously - I don't understand what people ACTUALLY, SPECIFICALLY mean by this. Equal pay for equal work I get...but income inequality? Should we as a society pay everyone the same salary regardless of what they do, or limit how much a person can make? What is your solution? Would one of you please describe exactly what this salary figure should be and the exact extent of the luxuries they should enjoy?

Edit: Also, while you're at it, give me a number for exactly how tall a private building should be allowed to be...

Last edited by ryan81; September 17th, 2014 at 09:56 PM. Reason: addition
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Old September 17th, 2014, 10:04 PM   #10335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I know what a screwdriver looks like... thank you very much for your condescension, though. It's also not just my description but one others have used, screwdrivers don't need to follow the particular shape you illustrated as the elementary school lesson of the day. If you like the design, good on you. I don't, and I don't care if you don't like the reason. If you're going to build by far the largest building in the Western Hemisphere, then for god's sakes it should NEVER look like a metal twizzler.
Or a screwdriver.
Not to be a jerk or anything, but you had me a little confused with the screwdriver comparison as well. Now, I do see a strong resemblance to a drill bit in some of the renders, which I do not like. I do however feel that the finished product would look good.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 10:07 PM   #10336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I know what a screwdriver looks like... thank you very much for your condescension, though. It's also not just my description but one others have used, screwdrivers don't need to follow the particular shape you illustrated as the elementary school lesson of the day. If you like the design, good on you. I don't, and I don't care if you don't like the reason. If you're going to build by far the largest building in the Western Hemisphere, then for god's sakes it should NEVER look like a metal twizzler.
Or a screwdriver.
What SHOULD it look like? Please describe...if you wouldn't mind.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 10:53 PM   #10337
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
I know the station cost 4 billion dollars, not the dome. Calatrava has as many detractors as boosters.. his "genius" is more based on how he is viewed by a particular group. What's been made clear is that the whole station as built, capped by his frigging shell is a monument in excess that while cavernous will have little practical use.
Would you prefer a cramped, strictly functional station with no natural lighting, with nothing to impress future generations, architecturally?

Quote:
Not talking about what was built in the past, the castles and whatnot.
That's the thing, though. You can't ignore the bad of one thing and critisize another thing for the same reasons. And be happy it's a tower with good materials and a design 90% of people will like, instead of a 600 meter social housing block.

Quote:
not even kings of old had views from over 1,000 ft above the city to thumb their noses at their subjects.
How many of the 1% do you think do such a thing?
I guess having slaves, unashamed frivilous decoration of gold and silver, and massive palaces covering many acres of city land is not as bad as being 600 meters up.


Quote:
What was in the past doesn't mean we should extend to our time. In those days, the kings and aristocracy had their place, and the rest of the common schmucks had theirs. We shouldn't emphasize even more imposing towers of private triumphalism over the common. Or at least those with less than ten figure incomes, lol.
At what point did it ever change from the past? We have always had oligarchs and the super-wealthy imposing architectural triumphalism.

Last edited by ThatOneGuy; September 17th, 2014 at 11:03 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 04:23 AM   #10338
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My bad, I'm fixated for some reason on screwdriver but looks like a corkscrew or drill bit...it still looks like it belongs in Dubai than Chicago. And I hope that Calatrava travesty doesn't get built as the showcase tower of Chicago. There are a lot of ways to get creative and compelling without it just looking like it's trying too hard to stand out ..and it would like a sore thumb.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #10339
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where are you from? nyc?
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Old September 18th, 2014, 04:37 PM   #10340
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I'm gonna go ahead and throw a wrench into the discussion. First, I absolutely love the design. I can't think of a city where this would not look great in the skyline, especially Chicago. Second, it doesn't look like a Drill bit. The spiral is going the wrong way and I've never seen Drill bits that would require the drill to rotate in the left direction. The Drill would need to have a backwards Chuck, or eventually the Chuck would become loose and the Drill bit would fall out. Now, there are these things that every Auto Mechanic has in his tool box, and they can be a life saver, I know, because I have a few sets of them myself. They are generally known as "easy out" bits, or officially known as "screw extractors". They are used when the head of a screw or bolt has become stripped or broken and can't be removed with a Wrench or Screwdriver. It's also the reason why they work in the left direction because remember, Screws and bolts are installed in the righty-tighty, lefty-loosy sequence.
Thanks everybody for taking the time to read my condescending, 6th grade, shop class lesson

Easy out bit set....
[IMG]http://submit.************.com/forum/files/easyout1_169.jpg[/IMG]
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