daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 7th, 2006, 08:43 PM   #121
forumly_chgoman
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 10

3 MILLION square feet damn......that almost as much as in one ot the WTC
__________________

Zefire liked this post
forumly_chgoman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 7th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #122
wickedestcity
BANNED
 
wickedestcity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,566
Likes (Received): 26

it seems to me like everyone is passing judgment based on a rendering constructed by fellow forumers or newspapers and not by the real design team. the rendering we are all looking at does not follow in any way the description its supposed to resemble. whoever did it has no vison .according to the article the structure will only twist 270 deg. and then continue on up without twisting- this is probrobly meant to be understood that as it rises , the concave sides will become smaller to eventualy become circular shaped from the 270 deg. turn on up. the building will be toped off with finn like structures which noone added to their already inaccurate renderings. the fins will most likely follow the curve and twist of the building and extend the glass facade from 4 "sides" with triangulare shaped glass ,of the what will be a circulare shaped building at that point, and add a realy cool effect to the towers peak.
__________________

Zefire liked this post

Last edited by wickedestcity; December 7th, 2006 at 09:47 PM.
wickedestcity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2006, 09:44 PM   #123
downtownVital.org
You can call me Dan
 
downtownVital.org's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 421
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
The architect expressed pleasure that the building's simplified top, in which the tower's twisting curves would culminate in metal fins protruding slightly above the roof
Unless my eyesight isn't as good as it should be, the newest rendering doesn't seem to give a good feel for what these metal fins will look like, and I suspect they are key to how the top of the new design is handled. From this one rendering, I don't think I like this design as well as the older one, but I can see where the right flourish at the top may really make it seem better. So I guess I'll reserve judgement until I can see that.

Oops, wickedestcity beat me to my point.
__________________
- Dan

http://www.downtownvital.org

Last edited by downtownVital.org; December 7th, 2006 at 09:45 PM. Reason: My thoughts aren't very original!
downtownVital.org no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2006, 10:16 PM   #124
Chitowner245
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Paradise
Posts: 278
Likes (Received): 0

The new rendering looks odd without the antenna at the top. How difficult if possible at all would it be to add the 400 ft antenna with the new current rendering? Maybe a dumb question, but some developers have filed with the FAA for permits to go above FAA regulated heights in certain areas like Vegas, and it has worked in some cases. Chicago is the original skyscraper city, and the leader of American skyscraper innovations- why not go to 2400 ft and show the world that were not afraid of terrorists anymore? This would be great for morale, especially with Chicagoans and midwesterners.
Chitowner245 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2006, 10:20 PM   #125
urban_addict
Craving density 24/7
 
urban_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

Looks fine but reminds me more of a cut off piece of cable. And does it look slightly crooked at the top depending on your view? But either way I like the fact that it has 150 floors and I can only imagine seeing the building glowing from miles away. I hope they open an observatory as well (considering it's location to our 'beloved' Navy Pier)... unless that is just plain tacky for a luxury condo tower?
urban_addict no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2006, 02:52 PM   #126
BVictor1
Chicago's #1 Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,185
Likes (Received): 879

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i-business-hed

Giant condo tower raising big doubts

By Susan Diesenhouse
Tribune staff reporter
Published December 8, 2006


The new design of a twisting skyscraper proposed for Chicago's lakefront, unveiled Wednesday, seeks to make it more financially feasible, but opinions about that seem to range from skeptical to dismissive.

"It's financial suicide," Donald Trump, developer of a luxury condominium-hotel project going up not far away on the Chicago River, said Thursday of Shelbourne Development's plan to enlarge its proposed condominium tower on the river's north bank at Lake Shore Drive.

But James Loewenberg, whose Magellan Development LLC is building Lakeshore East near Millennium Park, said, "It's a great project if they can pull off the numbers," referring to quickly selling the 1,300 luxury units for at least $1,000 a square foot. Magellan has sold 1,350 of the 2,500 condos it is building at Lakeshore East for $350 to $650 a square foot.

Dublin-based Shelbourne announced that its Santiago Calatrava-designed tower would still be 2,000 feet tall, as previously planned. But the building would be about 3 million square feet with perhaps 160 stories, up from 115 in the original design, the company said Thursday, and seven more stories for underground parking.

While Shelbourne spokesman Thomas Murphy declined to give an estimated total development cost for what would be the world's tallest building, experts in residential real estate said the price tag could approach $2 billion or even surpass it.

In this era of rapidly rising construction costs, building such tall structures is very expensive because they are complicated engineering feats and get more so the taller they soar. Sometimes, towers with at least 50 stories yield only about 73 percent of sellable space compared with about 85 percent for a smaller structure.

Also, markedly multiplying the complexity and cost of the project would be excavating to build underground parking at the site. To dig below the water level while keeping the site dry, Shelbourne will use a process called slurry wall construction that calls for great skill and time, both costly commodities.

"I compliment the effort, but building at this height with this substructure can sometimes lead to surprises," said John Murphy, a partner at Ricker Murphy Development LLC, which is planning a 325-condominium project in Lincoln Park.

He added that "it will test the elasticity of luxury demand."

In other words, will buyers come?

The yield of sellable space at the Calatrava structure will be 65 percent to 70 percent, Thomas Murphy said, and it will be marketed internationally by Britain-based Savills PLC for at least $1,000 a square foot.

"We're looking at bringing it to another level," Murphy said. In Chicago, "One thousand dollars a square foot has already been achieved at the Trump and Ritz projects."

But, he added, "We're looking at a global market in which $1,000 a square foot is not a lot."

Chicago has six high-end luxury residential projects under development, with a total of 1,100 units. About 500 units are being marketed for as much as $1,000 a square foot, said Gail Lissner, vice president of Appraisal Research Counselors.

About 486 of the 1,100 units are at Trump International Hotel and Tower, which started sales in September 2003, she said.

Of the Calatrava building, Lissner said: "This could be a very long sellout unless they find other buyers nationally and internationally. Clearly, the Chicago market [alone] would have a great deal of difficulty absorbing them."

As far as Trump is concerned, right now "the Chicago market is not good. There are many planned projects that won't get built, and I predict this is one of them."

Trump, who said he has sold 70 percent of his units, said, "I sold many of mine for $900 to about $1,200 a square foot two years ago."

He estimates that the Calatrava spire will cost about $1.7 billion to develop. "I'd like to see it get built," Trump said.

The twisting shape of the design will complicate construction, he said. And coupled with a slow residential market that he does not think will draw many international buyers, Trump believes the project "is financially impossible."

Loewenberg is more agnostic about the spire's prospects.

"There's only one Chicago project that has allegedly sold for $1,000 a square foot. It's Donald Trump's," he said. "What the market is [for more luxury condos] has yet to be determined."

Shelbourne has a strong design, Loewenberg said, and "a super site and sophisticated marketing plan."

But with a plethora of condominiums scheduled to be built in the next few years, he said, "It will be a struggle, and only those with the best location and product will survive."

----------

[email protected]



Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune
BVictor1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2006, 05:05 PM   #127
forumly_chgoman
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 10

OK bear with me....for one maybe this is a stupid idea and for two I am a computer engineer who is in law sschool...I am not a trained architect or structrual engineer, or designer so I may be out of my league here and may not have the correct jargon

But I was think about ideas to add a spire to this project, ans thought of as many seem to have, of adding a spire at each "twisting point" ----don't know the term -- so I believe either STR or Steely mentioned either here or ssc that there were either 5 or 6 twists, so thre would be 5 or six spiires on top.

Now the perhaps stupid but perhaps innovative part of this idea is to use a multiple of the golden ration -- 1.618 for our purposes, for those not familiar w/ the golden ration or fibboncai sequences go here:

golden ration : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

fibboncci sequence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number

-- to determine the lengths of the spire so spire 1 would be 2000 / 16.18 = 123.61 ft

spire two would be 123.61 * 1.618 = 200ft
spire 3 would be 200 * 1.618 = 323 ft
spire 4 would be 323 * 1.618 = 523.58
spire 5 would be 523.58 * 1.618 = 847.16

now maybe this would be too many spires so maybe limit it to 3 spires...especially if there are 6 "twist points"

thoughts?

Stupid??
__________________

Zefire liked this post
forumly_chgoman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #128
Mr Downtown
Urbane observer
 
Mr Downtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,547
Likes (Received): 10

New rendering makes me think of a wet towel being wrung out.
Mr Downtown no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2006, 11:04 PM   #129
uberalles
Boca Raton,FL (x-Chicago)
 
uberalles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 430
Likes (Received): 0

^ Ouch. I now have 2 voices talking to me. One that hates it. The other voice trying to convince me it'll grow on you. My negative voice is being very well expressed by Chitown.

I've heard melting candle, a drill bit being crammed into the ground. Now the towel thing, LOL.

With the old design, the criticism wasn't there. Something telling in that.

BTW, see more activity here, skyscraperpage closed the forum on this. (Guess not)

Last edited by uberalles; December 9th, 2006 at 04:09 AM.
uberalles no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 01:43 PM   #130
edsg25
BANNED
 
edsg25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,195
Likes (Received): 105

As far as Trump is concerned, right now "the Chicago market is not good. There are many planned projects that won't get built, and I predict this is one of them."



Sour grapes? Wishful thinking? Blow hard east coast piece of shit? The astute observation of a real estate maven?

ANd how would you respond to The Donald if you had a chance?
__________________

Zefire liked this post
edsg25 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 03:34 PM   #131
xrl
Registered User
 
xrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 172
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i-business-hed

Giant condo tower raising big doubts

By Susan Diesenhouse
Tribune staff reporter
Published December 8, 2006


"We're looking at a global market in which $1,000 a square foot is not a lot."

----------

[email protected]



Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune
That's very true. I wonder what percentage of sales could be achieved on the international market.
xrl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 05:56 PM   #132
uberalles
Boca Raton,FL (x-Chicago)
 
uberalles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 430
Likes (Received): 0

[QUOTE=edsg25;10799953
ANd how would you respond to The Donald if you had a chance?[/QUOTE]

Donald, you ignorant slut. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.
uberalles no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 06:16 PM   #133
chicagogeorge
Registered User
 
chicagogeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South suburban Chicago
Posts: 5,284
Likes (Received): 893

Trump is just trying to portect his building. He will try to put the kabash on any highrise that might chanllenge his. The Spire would definitely do just that.
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
chicagogeorge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 07:35 PM   #134
geoff_diamond
Live from the Loop
 
geoff_diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,578
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Blow hard east coast piece of shit?
Strong words for the man who's bringing us our tallest bit of construction in three decades. Seems kinda harsh to me. He's just doing his job!
__________________
Straight from Michigan and Monroe in downtown Chicago!
geoff_diamond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2006, 09:10 PM   #135
chicagogeorge
Registered User
 
chicagogeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South suburban Chicago
Posts: 5,284
Likes (Received): 893

Trump claims that the high end market condo market in Chicago is oversaturated. Say it be true, but if Shelbourne developers do not need pre construction contracts as they claim to have secured financing without it, then does it really matter? The building will go up.
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
chicagogeorge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2006, 12:26 AM   #136
edsg25
BANNED
 
edsg25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,195
Likes (Received): 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberalles View Post
Donald, you ignorant slut. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.
amazingly that would work well on ben Ladden as well....not that I'm holding my breath that we'll ever get to try it out on him.
__________________

Zefire liked this post
edsg25 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #137
Chicago_Skyline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
Trump is just trying to portect his building. He will try to put the kabash on any highrise that might chanllenge his. The Spire would definitely do just that.
Yea, I would say his ambition wasn't enuf so now he backfire because Chicago Spire got better location and way more height!

However, we need alot of face lift and roof rework for its model!
__________________

Zefire liked this post
Chicago_Skyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2006, 02:34 AM   #138
chicagogeorge
Registered User
 
chicagogeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South suburban Chicago
Posts: 5,284
Likes (Received): 893

I'm really not concerned with what the Spire will end up looking without the Spire LOL. I'm sure Calatrava will come through.



I just want to find out more about the possibility that construction may begin without pre-construction sales. I can't get Murphy's comments out of my head. I hope this is true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy View Post

Sources say the developer also told neighbors that its financing was lined up, meaning they can begin construction without pre-selling condos, and that Shelbourne didn’t think a hotel would succeed at the 400 N. Lakeshore Drive location, so far from Michigan Avenue.

Mr. Murphy wouldn’t comment on financing, the hotel or how the unit makeup will change with the new designs. He says groundbreaking is planned for the second quarter of next year.
.
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
chicagogeorge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2006, 04:13 AM   #139
geoff_diamond
Live from the Loop
 
geoff_diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,578
Likes (Received): 2

I would hardly say that the Spire has a better location than Trump. For my money, I choose Wabash and the River over LSD and the River any day of the week.
__________________
Straight from Michigan and Monroe in downtown Chicago!
geoff_diamond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2006, 04:41 AM   #140
spyguy
Expert
 
spyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,916
Likes (Received): 97

Depends on what you're looking for I suppose. Both locations have their benefits, however, the views from most floors in CS must be amazing.

It would be awesome to have enough money to afford a unit where I could see multiple states throughout my day without leaving my home.
spyguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
chicago, santiago calatrava, spire, tallest, tower

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu