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Old May 31st, 2007, 12:11 AM   #1561
Green Jello
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After looking at the lot for a while on Google Earth, I noticed something:



The two lots on either side of Lakeshore Dr. are almost identical in size. Why are they not swapped? Then the spire could surrounded by water on 3 sides and not have the other buildings so close. Is that lot less stable? Landfill? It seems the property value on the park lot would be the higher of the two. After some measuring with Google Earth, the park lot is even the slightly larger of the two.


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Old May 31st, 2007, 12:26 AM   #1562
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Darn good questions dwalden.
I dunno the answers. But I'd like to find out.
Anybody know more about the park lot.
Isn't that the better lot to build on for a whole gaggle of reasons?
Water on three side!! Yes.
One could even do a some landfill to make it larger if that suited the design ideas.
Landfill can't be all that expensive. Is it?
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Last edited by graham; May 31st, 2007 at 12:32 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 12:47 AM   #1563
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FYI - After using the map and doing some more Google Earth measuring, it looks like the CS is going to be 60m in diameter at the base. That's only slightly smaller than the Sears Tower which is not a base I would call small in any way.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:01 AM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalden View Post
FYI - After using the map and doing some more Google Earth measuring, it looks like the CS is going to be 60m in diameter at the base. That's only slightly smaller than the Sears Tower which is not a base I would call small in any way.
True! But compared to their own heights = big diff.

Here is a google satellite shot.
Could landfill the park a bit and have room for the park and the tower together! With water all around! Oh ya.
I marked in yellow green some other areas big enough to not exert restrictions on the desgn. Forgive me if I made some stupid suggestions. I don't know the area well. But one spot looks like an abandoned golf course.
More open areas without tall buildings close by will showcase the project more I think.

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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:22 AM   #1565
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I walked past this area on Sunday. What sort of struck me ,and can be seen in the aieral photos , is the area to the east of LSD. That half a street plus a street Light intriguied me. I wonder what used to be on that spot.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:24 AM   #1566
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Good points graham.
Aside from the waterfront and larger base issues for esthetics, the reason Trump scaled back the Trump Tower Chicago was exactly because of his post 9/11 terrorism fears. Trump stated that it was many of the buyers who requested a lower height, so as not to stand out so prominently as they were afraid. In the Freedom Tower design in NYC, this issue figured prominently in the base design and bomb and police experts were consulted. Architects for major projects are now taking attack survivability into account in their designs. I have not heard this issue addressed for this Calatrava CS project.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 02:51 AM   #1567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graham View Post
True! But compared to their own heights = big diff.

Here is a google satellite shot.
Could landfill the park a bit and have room for the park and the tower together! With water all around! Oh ya.
I marked in yellow green some other areas big enough to not exert restrictions on the desgn. Forgive me if I made some stupid suggestions. I don't know the area well. But one spot looks like an abandoned golf course.
More open areas without tall buildings close by will showcase the project more I think.
Well since you don't know the area very well, I'll try and explain why those areas won't work.

First, the "abandoned golf course" is no more. There are already seven highrises completed or under construction and more to come.

Second, only the original site is zoned for the 150 story building. There would be an enormous outcry if they tried to swap spots, and no politician is stupid enough to try it now. As you can tell, there are no highrises are on the east side of LSD except for Lake Point Tower, and this rule is pretty much unbroken along the coast. There are all sorts of lakefront protection groups and laws that would kill this sort of proposal anyway.

Landfill will annoy people as well, and I'm sure other government agencies could/would get involved then.

Your other spot in the lower right is pretty much impossible.

Basically this is what is comes down to: he paid a good deal of money for the site, and he only owns that site. Either he will build something there or he won't and will sell it.

Last edited by spyguy; May 31st, 2007 at 03:01 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 02:58 AM   #1568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalden View Post
After looking at the lot for a while on Google Earth, I noticed something:

The two lots on either side of Lakeshore Dr. are almost identical in size. Why are they not swapped? Then the spire could surrounded by water on 3 sides and not have the other buildings so close. Is that lot less stable? Landfill? It seems the property value on the park lot would be the higher of the two. After some measuring with Google Earth, the park lot is even the slightly larger of the two.
Due to a Chicago ordinance, residential and commercial buildings are not allowed to be built east of Lake Shore Drive. Luckily for Lake Point Tower the statute had not yet been enacted until after they had built the tower. The ordinance was put in place to give the public access to the lakefront.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 04:26 AM   #1569
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Thanks for the inside answers guys.
Politics, lakeside protection groups, access ordinances.
An exception could be made for Americas tallest building and
a huge tourist attraction for Chicago? no?
Still, there must be at least a few reasonably large lots for a superbuilding to go on.
If not there would be something wrong with the people responsible for urban planning I think.
A city can't grow big buildings because of too many rules? That sound like maybe, oh i don't know, Green Bay, not Chicago, lol.
OK - the golf course has to go!! lmao. I supose the golf course protection groups would be up in arms like there's no other courses for 100 miles, lol. No, but seriously, golf courses get bought and used for development all the time everywhere.
They just rebuild elsewhere on less valuable land. How does a golf course manage to exist on such valuable property??
Are there 4,000 members coughing up $10,000 a year each or something??
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Last edited by graham; May 31st, 2007 at 04:53 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:11 AM   #1570
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The golf is gone

Check out flashearth.com, the ask.com image shows a good update with lots of construction completed where the golf course once stood. Graham, I disagree with many of your opinions, but you have enlightened me at times, and your postings are within good taste and relevancy to the topic, I hope you do not stop posting on this thread.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:32 AM   #1571
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still feels like a dream for some reason... like it's too good to be true. please dont wake me up.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 06:44 AM   #1572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceventura View Post
Check out flashearth.com, the ask.com image shows a good update with lots of construction completed where the golf course once stood. Graham, I disagree with many of your opinions, but you have enlightened me at times, and your postings are within good taste and relevancy to the topic, I hope you do not stop posting on this thread.
Yes, I checked it out on flashearth/ask.com aerial and all the courses are gone, both the abandoned and the newer looking stuff. There's lots of development there now. Help's to have up to date info. Thanks.

I wonder how the idea to go 2000 feet with a lot like that got started.
What are the reasons that a nice 40 story condo never got built there before?
It seems nothing has really changed before they decided to cram a 150 story condo in there instead.
I don't understand. Can anybody sort it out for me, please?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 09:13 AM   #1573
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This is an amazing project!

Where will it be ranked amongst other supertalls in the world?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 09:46 AM   #1574
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The lot definitely looks a little small for a 150 floor structure... sure it's not incredibly wide, in fact it's pretty thin, but still... a bigger lot would be to their advantage.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:18 PM   #1575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NittanyBLUE2002 View Post
still feels like a dream for some reason... like it's too good to be true. please dont wake me up.
I know what you mean buddy. I'm just really... really hoping that this project doesn't go bankrupt in the beginning and they can sell enough units to actually get it built.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:30 PM   #1576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graham View Post
Interesting design. It's as if Bernini designed skyscrapers.

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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:32 PM   #1577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RafflesCity View Post
This is an amazing project!

Where will it be ranked amongst other supertalls in the world?

Possibly, anywhere from second to the fourth tallest in the world. Has more to do with its completion date, IMHO.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 06:37 PM   #1578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latoso View Post
Interesting design. It's as if Bernini designed skyscrapers.
You have a sharp eye, visual awareness, and are thinking about shape in a historical context. The shape has a message. It works no matter what the date is. Good work!

Cheers
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Old May 31st, 2007, 10:28 PM   #1579
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Im glad the building is starting construction. It will give me something to be occupied by, while the Freedom Tower is reaching street level

Hard to believe, that a building of this size will be built in 3 1/2 years, where as the Ft will take 5.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 10:29 PM   #1580
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Im glad the building is starting construction. It will give me something to be occupied by, while the Freedom Tower is reaching street level

Hard to believe, that a building of this size will be built in 3 years, where as the Ft will take 5 years to build.
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