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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:08 PM   #1581
jamude18
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nice tower
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:15 PM   #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerick1970 View Post
Im glad the building is starting construction. It will give me something to be occupied by, while the Freedom Tower is reaching street level

Hard to believe, that a building of this size will be built in 3 years, where as the Ft will take 5 years to build.
I think everyone agrees with you. I personally think there's too much ego and pride involved in the FT, from city government to developer to architect. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe the FT is just that more complicated to build. I personally think that Chicago Spire >>> FT.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:34 PM   #1583
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Originally Posted by dwalden View Post
After looking at the lot for a while on Google Earth, I noticed something:



The two lots on either side of Lakeshore Dr. are almost identical in size. Why are they not swapped? Then the spire could surrounded by water on 3 sides and not have the other buildings so close. Is that lot less stable? Landfill? It seems the property value on the park lot would be the higher of the two. After some measuring with Google Earth, the park lot is even the slightly larger of the two.

nice pictures and all but let's get back to logic. clearly, a building of this magnitude would not be as safe on the site you propose as it would in its' current location. it would weaken the base if they built that 2,000 foot beast on the coastline surrounded on 3 sides by water like Florida.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:38 PM   #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrT View Post
Good points graham.
Aside from the waterfront and larger base issues for esthetics, the reason Trump scaled back the Trump Tower Chicago was exactly because of his post 9/11 terrorism fears. Trump stated that it was many of the buyers who requested a lower height, so as not to stand out so prominently as they were afraid. In the Freedom Tower design in NYC, this issue figured prominently in the base design and bomb and police experts were consulted. Architects for major projects are now taking attack survivability into account in their designs. I have not heard this issue addressed for this Calatrava CS project.
attack survivability is not a new thing to tower construction. in fact, the architect that designed the world trade center prepared his buildings for plane crashes. this has been going on since the birth of flight. forethought is nothing new to designers.

many of the chicago spire's future tenants currently reside out of the US (UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, ect.) that is the attraction. the chicago spire is universal and not made soley for domestic residents. you will find fears of terrorism aren't quite as strong in other places as they are here in America and that has to do with those respected Western European countries foreign policies compared to Bush's.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 11:39 PM   #1585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNL View Post
nice pictures and all but let's get back to logic. clearly, a building of this magnitude would not be as safe on the site you propose as it would in its' current location. it would weaken the base if they built that 2,000 foot beast on the coastline surrounded on 3 sides by water like Florida.
Are you a geologist who is an expert on urban Chicago? I don't know the makeup of that plot any more than you do, but I'd be surprised if it was much different than the chosen site which has water on 2 sides and is only 100 meters away.

You know,...large things have been built in or on water before:




Last edited by Green Jello; May 31st, 2007 at 11:59 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 04:25 AM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrT View Post
Good points graham.
Aside from the waterfront and larger base issues for esthetics, the reason Trump scaled back the Trump Tower Chicago was exactly because of his post 9/11 terrorism fears. Trump stated that it was many of the buyers who requested a lower height, so as not to stand out so prominently as they were afraid. In the Freedom Tower design in NYC, this issue figured prominently in the base design and bomb and police experts were consulted. Architects for major projects are now taking attack survivability into account in their designs. I have not heard this issue addressed for this Calatrava CS project.
just so we are on the same page here:

Bt the time the first design for trump was released to the public in Dec 2001, it had already been scaled back from being the worlds tallest, well before there were any buyers.
http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=100347

then sales began in Sept. 2003
http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=100940

Feb 2005, Trump considers making it taller than Sears
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...l=chi-news-hed

March 2005, Trump decides not to make it taller than Sears, citing that 3/10 buyers favored keep the building shorter than Sears.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/featur...ertainment-utl
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Old June 1st, 2007, 05:34 AM   #1587
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Thanks for that info.
Damn, that's interesting.
And has very important implications for future tall buildings in USA.
Especially ones with residential units.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 03:53 PM   #1588
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Well I wish such a bold attitude had been put at work in the Freedom Tower's design.

On the other hand, Chicago was the origin of tall 'modern' buildings in... Yeah... the world pretty much, so it should stay ahead of NY in terms of architectural quality if you ask me.
Go Spire. Make it 3000 feet if necessary.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 06:49 PM   #1589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjbolton View Post
Go Spire. Make it 3000 feet if necessary.
It would be nice to see the US have the tallest tower in the world again, I dont think even Burj Dubai will be 3k'. If any city in America deserves the Worlds Tallest its Chicago.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 06:54 PM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridian-will View Post
It would be nice to see the US have the tallest tower in the world again, I dont think even Burj Dubai will be 3k'. If any city in America deserves the Worlds Tallest its Chicago.
I agree that it would be nice for the U.S. to get the world's tallest back again, but it seems like a futile effort these days. Sears held the record for 25 years. With the booming economies in China, Dubai, Russia, etc. I doubt any record will stand very long. It already looks like the Burj Dubai will only hold the record until the Al Burj is built.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 07:52 PM   #1591
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The almighty FAA will nix any real efforts to go past 2000'
It's a shame that exceptions can not be made in circumstances where national pride is concerned.
No federal politician will over-ride the FAA because if there's an accident, then it's good bye to his political career.
There should be no fly zones for big planes over all cities, except for traffic and air ambulance choppers.
If they really want the record, they can just change the rules, change the way things are done, and just get it the f done!
It's a matter of will.
Nevermind investors.
The federal gov't could have built a hundred 3,000 foot towers for what they spent in defense last year alone, and had multi billions left over.
I think they are missing a big opportunity to bolster national pride.

Look what being first on the moon did for the country.
Another grand project is needed.

OOPS - I hope I didn't get too political there!! OMG
I might need a flame helmet, lol.
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Last edited by graham; June 1st, 2007 at 08:07 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 10:19 PM   #1592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graham View Post
The almighty FAA will nix any real efforts to go past 2000'
It's a shame that exceptions can not be made in circumstances where national pride is concerned.
No federal politician will over-ride the FAA because if there's an accident, then it's good bye to his political career.
There should be no fly zones for big planes over all cities, except for traffic and air ambulance choppers.
If they really want the record, they can just change the rules, change the way things are done, and just get it the f done!
It's a matter of will.
Nevermind investors.
The federal gov't could have built a hundred 3,000 foot towers for what they spent in defense last year alone, and had multi billions left over.
I think they are missing a big opportunity to bolster national pride.

Look what being first on the moon did for the country.
Another grand project is needed.

OOPS - I hope I didn't get too political there!! OMG
I might need a flame helmet, lol.
Well, that 2000ft rule was created for thin masts in the middle of nowhere, not for habitable buildings in urban areas that'd be seen for miles and miles so am sure getting approval from the FAA wouldn't be a problem as long as there's no airport nearby. For some reason everyone thinks this 2000ft rule is set in stone

Last edited by i_am_hydrogen; June 2nd, 2007 at 01:06 AM.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 10:25 PM   #1593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec View Post
Well, that 2000ft rule was created for thin masts in the middle of nowhere, not for habitable buildings in urban areas that'd be seen for miles and miles so am sure getting approval from the FAA wouldn't be a problem as long as there's no airport nearby. For some reason everyone thinks this 2000ft rule is set in stone
That is a common misconception, Malec. There are actually two different rules in place: one by the FCC that governs masts, and one by the FAA that governs high rises. They are essentially identical regulations, both set at 2000 feet. While it is true that neither of these regulations are set in stone, for all practical purposes they are since they require the developer to prove that the project is an efficient usage of airspace and that there is a public interest in breaching the 2000 foot ceiling. The FAA is not easily impressed by arguments about how necessary a tall tower is.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:19 AM   #1594
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Height aside, and the prominence of having a "Calatrava" of our very own notwithstanding, this honestly isn't a very good "Calatrava" building. It is a far cry from the original proposal which really was something special, but it has been homogenized into a two-act play awkwardly searching for a finale.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:33 AM   #1595
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There is an image of a Spooky Man towards the left hand side of the Excavation ..

Can anyone else make it out ... eyes , goatie ...just above the three parked Cars .....I think he is smiling .



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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:43 AM   #1596
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I love this tower.... more and more every time i see it.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:49 AM   #1597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalden View Post
I agree that it would be nice for the U.S. to get the world's tallest back again, but it seems like a futile effort these days. Sears held the record for 25 years. With the booming economies in China, Dubai, Russia, etc. I doubt any record will stand very long. It already looks like the Burj Dubai will only hold the record until the Al Burj is built.

Althought the record is not bad in itself it is a vanity thing. I wouldn't want the CS to be any higher and in fact I wouldn't mind seeing it 300-500ft. shorter (yes, that is blasphemous to some).
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 07:24 AM   #1598
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From SSP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan81 View Post
Hey everyone,

I added to Archytype's original composition. I added CS and Trump.

I know, I know, the CS doesn't look as realistic pasted into this image as it could....Also, the location and height of Trump is APPROXIMATE...an educated guess based on the known heights and location of existing buildings around it......just thought I'd say that before someone replies and tells me.

I may work tonight to get the CS to look more realistic...I think I just need to add a little texture to the sketchup model to give it a glass facade. I don't have a sketchup model of Mandarin Oriental to place in this shot.

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Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:03 AM   #1599
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chi-town is lookin great
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:32 AM   #1600
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Awesome rendering! Chicago need more than just one megatall.
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