daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 12th, 2006, 03:55 AM   #161
downtownVital.org
You can call me Dan
 
downtownVital.org's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 421
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbojoe45 View Post
I love the height but maybe pop on a spire and reduce the twist to get that smooth curve back
I wonder if the newer twist will look better to a viewer standing near the building. Perspective will make twists nearer the viewer seem more relaxed, and those farther away seem tighter. So the new design may appear to have a more consistant curve from nearby, whereas the old twist would have looked bunched near the top to the same viewer.

Opinions can differ, but I like the new curve, I just hope the top is finished in a more elegant way than the essentially flat top.
__________________
- Dan

http://www.downtownvital.org
downtownVital.org no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 12th, 2006, 05:27 AM   #162
geoff_diamond
Live from the Loop
 
geoff_diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,578
Likes (Received): 2

A couple of points: I'm not disagreeing with anything that Kamin has to say about the tower in his peice (at least from a formal sense). What I did get stuck on, however, was the continued irrational fears about traffic. Let's say each and every person in the Spire decided to leave the building within a one hour period (an event that would NEVER happen): that is a rate of 22.5 cars added to North Water street in each minute. That is only 1 car every ~3 seconds. Three seconds is an eternity if you stand on the sidewalk and only see one car pass you that often. One car every three seconds is the kind of traffic that you see on Dearborn in the Loop at 9:00pm - hardly problematic.

Quote:
Are buildings built to just overcome the stresses they need to take and anything more would be wasting money?
Engineering the structure of a building is based on three things: live load (people, snow, wind), dead load (the building itself and its permanent fixtures), and the factor of safety. The factor of safety, in essense allows any structure within the building to handle anywhere from 115% to 150% of its anticipated load (depending on whether we're talking about a floor, or a roof, etc.). So, a quick answer to your question uberalles, is, "no." Buildings are designed to take on more stress than it's perceived they ever would need to.
__________________
Straight from Michigan and Monroe in downtown Chicago!
geoff_diamond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 08:29 AM   #163
uberalles
Boca Raton,FL (x-Chicago)
 
uberalles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 430
Likes (Received): 0

I was wondering how much of a safety factor was built in. You've answered my question. Thanks.
uberalles no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 12:47 PM   #164
edsg25
BANNED
 
edsg25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,195
Likes (Received): 105

I'm curious as to why the new design couldn't have incorporated even a hint of a taper. Such a move would have little to do with sellable space insofar as a gentle taper would remove very little precious real estate, but would, as noted, act more harmoniously with the taper than the new linear model does.
__________________

Zefire liked this post
edsg25 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 03:37 PM   #165
geoff_diamond
Live from the Loop
 
geoff_diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,578
Likes (Received): 2

Well, you have to think about how much of a taper would be required if it were to be noticable over a 2,000 foot stretch. Even if you're looking for just a 3 or 4 degree angle on the facade, you're talking about a considerable loss of space by the time you reach the top.
__________________
Straight from Michigan and Monroe in downtown Chicago!
geoff_diamond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 03:39 PM   #166
geoff_diamond
Live from the Loop
 
geoff_diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,578
Likes (Received): 2

The mother load, courtesy of World Architecture News. I hate it much less than I thought I did based on the smaller images. I'm especially intrigued by the night-time shot with the lights emanating from each 'fin.' I wonder if it's an effect they're using to get us (and city council) to buy into the new scheme or if it's something they'll actually implement in the tower.





__________________
Straight from Michigan and Monroe in downtown Chicago!

Last edited by geoff_diamond; December 12th, 2006 at 03:49 PM.
geoff_diamond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 10:33 PM   #167
ChicagoLover
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 819
Likes (Received): 0

I was put off by Kelleher's explanation of why he is not entertaining the idea of incorporating a television transmission tower. He doesn't know that business? How about doing a little research on something that could make or break this thing? Talk about a guy without imagination or entrepreneurial skill. Not surprising for someone who BUYS someone else's dreams.

Talking about a business Kelleher doesn't know.. how about selling 1300 condos in a $1 billion + tower outside his native Ireland? Yeah, that's the way to make the deal more workable.. up the number of condos by 4x ... His talk of having financing irrespective of condos sold is obviously idle boasting. This proposal is reminding me more and more of a grandiose proposal made about 6-8 years ago to build an entertainment venue off the coast of the South Works site.

The positive thing is.. it seems that Chicago inspires people to think *huge*, even when its unworkable. People just dream wildly. And then some plans actually do get built. I love that.
ChicagoLover no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 11:18 PM   #168
forumly_chgoman
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 757
Likes (Received): 10

^Above you know those large rendering look kinda cool, but thet seem like somewhat dated photos I don' t notice 340, the heritage or some of the later developemtns in LSE in them??
__________________

Zefire liked this post
forumly_chgoman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2006, 11:23 PM   #169
i_am_hydrogen
muted
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,080
Likes (Received): 203

After seeing those larger shots, I still feel the same way about the new design.
i_am_hydrogen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 02:13 AM   #170
ardecila
Jack-Of-All-Trades
 
ardecila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Orleans/Chicago
Posts: 1,391
Likes (Received): 2

I didn't notice that it had been changed from a square to an octagonal floorplate until now - thanks, Geoff.

The sudden shift from a twisting to a vertical dynamic gives a bit of the flavor that the spire had.
ardecila no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 02:20 AM   #171
Frumie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 717
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoLover View Post
I was put off by Kelleher's explanation of why he is not entertaining the idea of incorporating a television transmission tower. He doesn't know that business? How about doing a little research on something that could make or break this thing? Talk about a guy without imagination or entrepreneurial skill. Not surprising for someone who BUYS someone else's dreams.

Talking about a business Kelleher doesn't know.. how about selling 1300 condos in a $1 billion + tower outside his native Ireland? Yeah, that's the way to make the deal more workable.. up the number of condos by 4x ... His talk of having financing irrespective of condos sold is obviously idle boasting. This proposal is reminding me more and more of a grandiose proposal made about 6-8 years ago to build an entertainment venue off the coast of the South Works site.

The positive thing is.. it seems that Chicago inspires people to think *huge*, even when its unworkable. People just dream wildly. And then some plans actually do get built. I love that.
Mr Kelleher, IMO, is talking like a shwred, highly experienced world-wide developer when he declines entering into unfamiliar waters, especially with so large a product at stake. The best stick with what they know best. That said, Mr. Kelleher envisions this project as anything but parochial, rather his market is global. Here's a developer making the first step towards putting Chicago on a world stage. it will be quite a coup if he's able to bring it off.
__________________
You truly want peace? Be righteous.
Frumie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 03:41 AM   #172
eon
2,000+
 
eon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 82
Likes (Received): 0

Thanks so much for the big pics, but the new design still looks a lot less elegant than the old one. It still feels incomplete!
__________________
eon
eon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 03:53 AM   #173
danthediscoman
Registered User
 
danthediscoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 384
Likes (Received): 1

That night rendering...
danthediscoman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 08:11 AM   #174
wickedestcity
BANNED
 
wickedestcity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,566
Likes (Received): 26

it does look like an octagon! why hasent this sort of major change in design been publicized ? Or are these renderings horrible depictions of the design.
The question i realy have is , how official are these renderings ? are these realy official or are hey simply phonie mock ups from some graphic artists hired by newspapers looking to provide some sort of visual to go along with the story?
__________________

Zefire liked this post
wickedestcity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 08:41 AM   #175
spyguy
Expert
 
spyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,916
Likes (Received): 97

^No, they're the real ones.
spyguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 09:01 AM   #176
gladisimo
If I could be anyone...
 
gladisimo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF, FC, HK
Posts: 2,525
Likes (Received): 39

Is it just me, or does it look like a really big drill bit?

I dont know, the tower would look at lot better within the skyline, it doesn't warrant so much prominence, imo
gladisimo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 11:25 AM   #177
Stiks
Registered User
 
Stiks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 180
Likes (Received): 216

I don't know if you guys noticed, but the first two day renderings show the new LSD bridge as well . . . looks pretty spiffy. Don't know if it would actually be constructed.
Stiks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 01:14 PM   #178
edsg25
BANNED
 
edsg25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,195
Likes (Received): 105

Quote:
Originally Posted by eon View Post
Thanks so much for the big pics, but the new design still looks a lot less elegant than the old one. It still feels incomplete!
Is it possible that "less elegant" , in this case, translates to "more practical"?
__________________

Zefire liked this post
edsg25 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 05:01 PM   #179
i_am_hydrogen
muted
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,080
Likes (Received): 203

Bloated spire plan deserves a big fat 'no' from city

December 13, 2006
BY DAVID ROEDER Sun-Times Columnist


How do you say chutzpah in Gaelic? Or bait and switch? Those are the terms that come to mind with Irish developer Garrett Kelleher's new version of the Santiago Calatrava building just west of Lake Shore Drive near Navy Pier. With zoning for the site in place and City Hall's taste for a Calatrava building whetted, the developer uncorks a plan to almost triple the building's size.

If the influential Streeterville Organization of Active Residents has any gumption, it will come out against the changes in terms so strong as to force the local alderman to oppose them. Then Kelleher and Calatrava would have to get real. Otherwise, there's a good chance this project will fail later on, and the construction site will be tied up in bankruptcy and litigation.

As currently fashioned, the building cannot succeed. The finances don't add up for a project that appeals to such a limited, super-rich segment of condo buyers. I suppose that's good news. We won't have to look at Calatrava's sellout of his own building. I wasn't as enamored of the original as some, but it had a grace missing in the revision. The new building is an overweight and mummified version of the first design. But it is proof that Calatrava has turned into a leech, sucking paydays from a developer who's enraptured with an international vanity project.
i_am_hydrogen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2006, 05:22 PM   #180
danthediscoman
Registered User
 
danthediscoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 384
Likes (Received): 1

^Not surprising coming from someone who wasn't even fond of the original (hes nuts) but where is this hate coming from, I mean its different, the top does look somewhat abrupt but overall this is still a beautiful building!

The other thing to note is that there is not accurate reflections in the rendering, which I think will have a major impact on how "bloated" it looks.
danthediscoman no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
chicago, santiago calatrava, spire, tallest, tower

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu