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Old February 28th, 2009, 06:14 PM   #421
Verso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
The main reason for that is simply a difference in definition. Victorians are more lenient in their definition of what makes a freeway, so they call the entire highway in their state a freeway. Here in NSW the definition is much stricter, so the highway doesn't qualify, even though most of it is of similar standard.
So it's mostly 4-laned also in NSW?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 06:45 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
So it's mostly 4-laned also in NSW?
Yes, it's mostly 2x2 with grade separated access at important intersections, and at-grade junctions with local lanes and such.

-------------------------------

Driving video: M4 Western Motorway eastbound
Part II: Roper Road, Colyton to Coleman Street, Mays Hill (incl. Light Horse Interchange)

Length: 16.7 km / 9:40 (average speed 104 km/h)
Date: Saturday, 28th February, 2009
Time: 15:30 (approx.)

Route:

[IMG]http://i41.************/2a4zmhd.png[/IMG]




The soundtrack has once again been muted by YouTube; it was supposed to be "Don't You Ever Wash That Thing?" by Frank Zappa (yes, I'm going through a huge Zappa phase at the moment).

Anyway, the highlight of this video is the Light Horse Interchange, where the M4 meets the M7. I pass through this 4-way turbine/stack hybrid between about 1:48 and 2:38.

Third and final part of this video coming soon!

Last edited by Robosteve; March 1st, 2009 at 04:59 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #423
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Wow, you're building quite a collection, Robosteve... another good video.

EDIT: beaten - I was referring to part 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
So it's mostly 4-laned also in NSW?
About 120km of the Hume Hwy is 1+1 in NSW - the rest is either freeway or limited-access dual carriageway (approx 450km in NSW and 300km in VIC).

From the list above (my calculations and classifications, not official):

Sydney – Melbourne via Hume Hwy: 885 km. Fwy/LimAccDual: 761 km (86%)

SYDNEY, NSW
Fwy - 127 km – Eastern Dist / Sthn Cross Dr / M5 South Western Mwy / M31 Hume Fwy / Hume Hwy (to Old Hume Hwy, south of Berrima)
Dual - 224 km – Hume Hwy (Old Hume Hwy, south of Berrima – Coolac)
1+1 section - x km
Dual - 12 km – Hume Hwy (Mingay – Sheridan St, Gundagai)
1+1 section - 2 km
Dual - 35 km – Hume Hwy (Cross St, Gundagai - Sturt Hwy)
1+1 section - x km
Dual - 22 km – Hume Hwy (Humula Rd, Tarcutta – Tumbarumba Rd, Kyeamba)
1+1 section - x km
Dual - 10 km – Hume Hwy (South of Kyeamba – north of Little Billabong)
1+1 section - x km
Dual - 14 km – Hume Hwy (Table Top – NSW-VIC border)
--- NSW / VIC border --- entering Victoria
Dual - 215 km – M31 Hume Fwy (VIC-NSW border - Divider Rd, Tallarook)
Fwy - 45 km – M31 Hume Fwy (Divider Rd, Tallarook - Beveridge)
Dual - 11 km – M31 Hume Fwy (Beveridge - Old Hume Hwy, Craigieburn)
Fwy - 14 km – M31 Hume Fwy (Old Hume Hwy, Craigieburn - Metropolitan Ring Rd)
Northern outskirts of MELBOURNE, VIC

... at this point, you have the choice to either follow Highway 31 (arterial road), or take the longer (but quicker) freeway route via Metropolitan Ring Rd, Tullamarine Fwy and CityLink Twy to reach central Melbourne.

Last edited by deranged; March 1st, 2009 at 04:08 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 07:03 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deranged View Post
Dual - 224 km – Hume Hwy (Old Hume Hwy, south of Berrima – Coolac)
1+1 section - x km
Dual - 49 km – Hume Hwy (Mingay – Sturt Hwy)
This doesn't seem to account for the very short section of 1+1 on the Sheahan Bridge, which won't become 2x2 until late this year.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #425
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You're a serious right-lane hogger. Nice motorway/freeway, I thought it was more urban, but looks like it's surrounded by greenery, which isn't bad either. Oh, and thanks for the Hume Hwy, guys!
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Old February 28th, 2009, 07:37 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
You're a serious right-lane hogger.
Not really; when there are people behind me who want to go faster, I'll move over. Today it seemed like I was the fastest one on the road, and there were too many cars wanting to honour the speed limit in the middle lane for me to use it.

I like the greenery around the M4, and the wide median. That's what I love about the F5, too; the nice wide median. I don't like having oncoming traffic right beside me, even if there is a concrete barrier there.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
It was always planned to end where it does in the west, but its eastern terminus was the best highway engineers could do after the anti-freeway government in the 1970s sold all the reserved land between Concord and the CBD. The government's solution to a highway through the mountains west of here, by the way, is not to extend the Western Motorway further, but to upgrade the Great Western Highway to 2x2 going straight through the middle of towns, so you still have 60 km/h sections with signalised intersections. I assume this is because of NIMBYs, greenies and/or the government not wanting to spend its precious money that pays politicians' salaries.

A while back they were thinking of finally connecting the M4 all the way to the CBD via a tunnel. Here is what became of those plans, which I take to be political bullshit for "we don't want to build it".
Looking at the *VERY GOOD* high-resolution aerial images on Google Earth (and their similarly good 'street view' coverage of Australia), I can see that canceling that freeway was a real traffic disaster - just the lines of cars at the signals along Great Western Highway, Wattle St and City West Link tell me that that misguided bit of environmental wackoism was predestined to fail.



And the only solution that I can see now is indeed an όber-expensive street bypass tunnel like was done in the Lane Cove area on the north end of the metro.

Mike
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Old February 28th, 2009, 10:11 PM   #428
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Well, here it is, the unholy premature termination to the motorway...

-------------------------

Driving video: M4 Western Motorway eastbound
Part III: Coleman Street, Mays Hill to Parramatta Road, Concord

Length: 12.1 km / 8:30 (average speed 85 km/h)
Date: Saturday, 28th February, 2009
Time: 15:30 (approx.)

Route:

[IMG]http://i42.************/2vkb3bo.png[/IMG]




As you've probably come to expect by now, the soundtrack ("The Ocean Is The Ultimate Solution" by Frank Zappa) has been muted by YouTube, so this is another silent video.

This part of the video features the viaduct section of the motorway over Parramatta (1:30 to 2:40) and the toll plaza just to the east of there (3:20 to 3:30), where the last section of the motorway was built by a private company in the 1980s. Then around 6:00 the road narrows to 2x2 for the final section of motorway, coming to an abrupt halt on Parramatta Road at the end of the video.


Last edited by Robosteve; March 1st, 2009 at 05:06 AM.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 12:59 AM   #429
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The end. Is that an add for the long version of Hummer at 5:47?
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Old March 1st, 2009, 03:39 AM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
The end. Is that an add for the long version of Hummer at 5:47?
Could be; looks like it might be for limousine hire though, I don't know if "Impressive Limousines" is a business name or not. Here's a screenshot from the original AVI footage, rotated, cropped and enlarged:

[IMG]http://i41.************/v7bb80.png[/IMG]
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Old March 1st, 2009, 04:09 AM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
This doesn't seem to account for the very short section of 1+1 on the Sheahan Bridge, which won't become 2x2 until late this year.
You're right, I had overlooked that. Cheers
And thanks for posting those videos.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 04:36 AM   #432
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I remember when i visited family in Sydney, the drive along the M4 to Penrtih was SOOOO BORING and straight, but it was awesome when it got to the Light Horse Interchange.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 05:13 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
And the only solution that I can see now is indeed an όber-expensive street bypass tunnel like was done in the Lane Cove area on the north end of the metro.
The Lane Cove Tunnel (as well as the M5 East and Eastern Distributor tunnels) was given priority for one and only one reason: it forms part of the orbital, despite functioning mostly as a radial motorway. The M4 East would not be able to use that excuse as a way of softening politicians, so I expect it will be a long time before it gets built, if it ever does. Politicians here don't like radial motorways, preferring to encourage the use of public transport, when really they just encourage road rage and rat running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deranged View Post
You're right, I had overlooked that. Cheers
And thanks for posting those videos.
No problem, I'm hoping to cover every motorway in and around Sydney eventually. I'm thinking about doing the F6 next weekend, if the weather's good and my dad doesn't need the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardoga View Post
I remember when i visited family in Sydney, the drive along the M4 to Penrtih was SOOOO BORING and straight, but it was awesome when it got to the Light Horse Interchange.
The M4 is exceptionally boring if you follow the extremely sluggish speed limit. As a general rule, I find that about 20 km/h over the limit on Australian highways is the most comfortable driving speed.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:46 AM   #434
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Just finished making this in Inkscape:

[IMG]http://i40.************/10oib94.png[/IMG]

If anybody would like a copy of the source SVG file, let me know and I'll upload it.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:52 AM   #435
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Good job! Did you use Google Earth to verify?
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 10:58 AM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Good job! Did you use Google Earth to verify?
I used Google Earth for the parts I wasn't completely sure of, although I can't verify all of it with Google Earth as some of it is in tunnels and some of the imagery is outdated (for instance, the F5 near Liverpool is now 2x4, but Google's imagery is from before the second carriageway was widened, so it still shows it as 4+2).

Also, to make it easier to get all the roads in the right places, I traced it over OpenStreetMap imagery and then got rid of the map behind it after I was finished.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:34 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
The main reason for that is simply a difference in definition. Victorians are more lenient in their definition of what makes a freeway, so they call the entire highway in their state a freeway. Here in NSW the definition is much stricter, so the highway doesn't qualify, even though most of it is of similar standard.
My understanding is that in Victoria declaration as a "freeway" confers a certain very high level of property access restriction; this actually aligns quite well with the how the term freeway came about in the US. It also restricts the class of vehicles which have access to the road (eg. no tractors), although this can be varied on a case by case basis through signs.

There are some standards which exist for "M" road designation, although these are not always met. The most basic element is the continuous dual carriageway, although there are also lane and shoulder width standards.

Hopefully this explains a little of why things are declared as freeways in Victoria that would not be elsewhere. There are at least two stretches of single carriageway road declared as freeway - go to http://maps.vicroads.vic.gov.au to see the bits near Orbost and Korumburra.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:35 PM   #438
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Great work, Robosteve!

I wish Ausway or UBD would do something similar with their maps to indicate number of lanes - perhaps by varying line thickness, given that their road hierarchies already use up to 7 colours. There is the problem of separating opposing directions while also differentiating between carriageways, but I suppose they could use a narrow gap for an undivided road, and a wide gap for a dual carriageway road.

Last edited by deranged; March 2nd, 2009 at 07:50 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:37 PM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
Just finished making this in Inkscape:

[IMG]http://i40.************/10oib94.png[/IMG]

If anybody would like a copy of the source SVG file, let me know and I'll upload it.
Nice map Robo.

The M5 between Heathcote Rd and Moorebank Ave is 3-3 and between Moorebank Ave and Hume Hwy (over Goerges River) is 4-4
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:37 PM   #440
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I think Sydney would rank rather low on the freeway lane miles per capita ratio list.
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