daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 7th, 2011, 11:16 AM   #741
KIWIKAAS
Registered User
 
KIWIKAAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Hague
Posts: 4,521
Likes (Received): 751

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Your main street indeed looks nicer if it is not a highway. But, while I'm not very familiar with the Hume Highway corridor, many towns bypassed by the Pacific Highway (or still to be bypassed by the Pacific Highway) did not have the highway in their main streets. The Pacific Highway tended to be a bit outside of the city centre, not in it. That of course still leaves a good room for improvement in those areas of town that used to be highway, but it is not necessarily about main street revitalisation.

In the Outback, the situation is comparable. The city centres of towns like Port Augusta, Alice Springs and Mount Isa are off-highway too. But the highway still runs through town, and bypassing would form a good relief.
Total waste of money and time bypassing towns like Port Augusta, Alice Springs and Mount Isa. The current routes are perfectly fine. Most of the traffic on these routes is local anyway (suburban and traffic from neighbouring towns). A wide bypass of these places wouldn't result in any noticable relief (in terms of traffic counts) except for a few road trains.
KIWIKAAS no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 7th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #742
roofromoz
#pantherpride
 
roofromoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney AU
Posts: 1,556
Likes (Received): 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIWIKAAS View Post
Total waste of money and time bypassing towns like Port Augusta, Alice Springs and Mount Isa. The current routes are perfectly fine. Most of the traffic on these routes is local anyway (suburban and traffic from neighbouring towns). A wide bypass of these places wouldn't result in any noticable relief (in terms of traffic counts) except for a few road trains.
A lot of regional centres have "heavy vehicle routes" which are local streets that act as a bypass of the town centre. They also generally go through the town's primary industrial area, and killing two birds with one stone.
roofromoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #743
roofromoz
#pantherpride
 
roofromoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney AU
Posts: 1,556
Likes (Received): 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed110220 View Post
If traffic volumes are low, doesn't bypassing small towns cause them to die off? This type of town often relies a lot on passing trade. Or are you talking of highways that are much busier and cause problems for the town?
Pino hit the nail on the head. A lot of these bypassed towns still perform a function as a "service centre" for the surrounding farms, etc. It just loses vibrancy by way of through traffic. But a lot of these bypassed towns do have service stations / fast food outlets on the outskirts, generally near the access point (grade seperated interchange or whatever it is) into the town. They generally have information centres too, which promote the attractions of the town and surrounding areas. Provided you have the time and willing to do a bit of exploring, bypassed towns claw back some of this missing passing trade, by way of shopping at an antique store, having a drink and dinner at the pub, and the like. It's all about how clever the local Council is in advertising itself from a tourist perspective, and also being blessed by the type of attractions that people are going to be interested in.

But in Australia, the bypassing generally only occurs on the main highways connecting the big cities on the east coast. In the west (i.e. South Australia and Western Australia), there are bypasses of towns near the capital cities, but out in the "sticks" (i.e. the outback), there will probably never be any bypassing as such - there's more likely to be the heavy vehicle route treatment as I said in my last post.

But using the specific examples recently mentioned, the town centres of Port August, Mt Isa and Alice Springs are already bypassed by how the highway runs through town.
roofromoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2011, 05:13 PM   #744
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

After hours of monotonous driving through the outback, a town may actually be some kind of a relief. Something different, maybe a place to stop and refuel, get groceries, etcetera.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2011, 05:23 PM   #745
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

I don't know the situation in Australia (nor is it my business), but I also don't know if people outside North America are familiar with this, so I'm mentioning that there has been considerable controversy here over the last 20 years or so due to the Walmart chain establishing large stores in highway locations on the outskirts of small towns. When local businesses (and not just businesses) hear Walmart's coming, they'll see it as a threat to them. I'm not a business expert, but I assume that because Walmart's so big they're able to offer lower prices than local businesses....

I'm of two minds about this sort of thing. It's nice to see traditional towns thrive but if it weren't Walmart it would be someone else.... (Personally, I don't patronize Walmart, but not because they're killing small towns (if they are), but because they have the reputation of treating their employees really badly.) I'm just raising this because I see people assuming that people will still want to get off the road and go into town to by groceries or whatever, so bypasses won't have an effect on in-town businesses, and - unless you zone against this sort of business along the bypass - I don't think that assumption takes into account businesses developing along the highway that will compete with the downtown. Whether that's good or bad is a separate question.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 7th, 2011, 05:32 PM   #746
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
After hours of monotonous driving through the outback, a town may actually be some kind of a relief. Something different, maybe a place to stop and refuel, get groceries, etcetera.
Very true. When I drove down Stuart Highway a few years ago, I was really counting down to towns on the basis of kilometer markers. And then, of course, the town was over in less than a minute. Time for the next 100km countdown...

That situation would of course become even stranger if Outback towns were to be bypassed. Tourists in particular may not even take the bypass, but indeed prefer to go into town. As I mentioned earlier, providing easier bypass for road trains and at the same time taking road trains out of town would be the main merit. But as I also mentioned, I'm not even sure whether this is the type of project that ought to be implemented all over. I am only certain that there is more merit in bypass studies than in studies to upgrade Outback highways in the Suburbanist-style.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 04:04 AM   #747
roofromoz
#pantherpride
 
roofromoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney AU
Posts: 1,556
Likes (Received): 231

There are also towns on the highways not connecting the major cities on the east coast (such as the Great Western Highway (NH32) heading west out of Sydney) where the existing alignment of the highway, on the assumption it bypasses the town centre in the first place, has been upgraded to a dual carriageway because of the spike in levels due to the through traffic as well as the local traffic. Main interesections are controlled by traffic signals or roundabouts, but once the highway leaves the urban areas, it generally reverts back to the standard 1x1 formation with occasional overtaking lanes.

One example of this is Bathurst, a big town ~200km west of Sydney located on the Great Western Highway.




Last edited by roofromoz; October 8th, 2011 at 04:13 AM.
roofromoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #748
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,533
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I don't know the situation in Australia (nor is it my business), but I also don't know if people outside North America are familiar with this, so I'm mentioning that there has been considerable controversy here over the last 20 years or so due to the Walmart chain establishing large stores in highway locations on the outskirts of small towns. When local businesses (and not just businesses) hear Walmart's coming, they'll see it as a threat to them. I'm not a business expert, but I assume that because Walmart's so big they're able to offer lower prices than local businesses....
That doesn't require a highway bypass to happen or not. Like US, most Australian cities have wide streets and avenues where big stores can open shop regardless. As long as it is easy to drive from other cities to them, there are chances of this happening.

And if it is to pay less, who wouldn't want that? But that is a retail discussion.

When they were building the Interstate system in US, some of these questions (displacement of cities thriving on passing trade) were indeed raised. States like New Mexico, Arizona, Utah wanted highways not to bypass towns but be "at grade" while crossing them. New Mexico did pass a law forbidding bypasses in 1952 I guess. But FHWA threatened to withheld all money for highway construction for the whole state, and they dropped that insanity measure.

For me, it's uncomfortable or outright dangerous and not recommended to have trucks, actually giant road trains like in Australia, driving through streets with immediate property access, houses, shops.

If you add 15 of this local towns crossing in a 2000km trip, you'd have spend almost 1 hour extra in urban traffic assuming no jams.

So bypasses of towns seems a good measure. To force long-distance traffic through local streets is a form of holding drivers and their vehicles hostage to the commerce existing there.

Also, nowadays trucks have much larger fuel tanks, all vehicles require far less regular repairs, and I doubt many people travel by car Perth to Adelaide. So the importance of passing trade is diminished.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:29 PM   #749
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

Goulburn Valley Fwy / Hwy; M39/A39

The Goulburn Valley Hwy/Fwy is a highway in the north of the state of Victoria and forms part of the Melbourne-Brisbane national highway. It runs for about 150km from Seymour in central Victoria to Tocumwal which sits on the NSW side of the Murray River. In New South Wales the highway is known as the Newell Highway. The Goulburn Valley Hwy continues south of Seymour (B340) to Yea and Eildon as a secondary state highway. The main regional town on the Goulburn Valley Hwy is Shepparton which is about halfway between Seymour and the Murray River. Shepparton sits in the middle of Victoria’s food bowl and is known for the SPC Ardmona factory where canned fruit is produced.
From Seymour the highway runs north to Nagambie, east of Murchison East, Shepparton, past Numurkah, to the Murray Valley Hwy (B400), turn right, east for 14km, turn left before Cobram, over the Murray to Tocumwal.
The Goulburn Valley is being progressively upgraded from 1x1 highway to 2x2 freeway but this is taking a very long time. Without a high throughput of traffic it doesn’t need to be upgraded quickly. It is being done in five sections:
1. Hume Fwy to south of Nagambie (upgrade to freeway completed about 1998)
2. Nagambie Bypass (under construction to be completed mid 2012)
3. Murchison East Deviation (completed about 2008)
4. Arcadia duplication (completed about 2008)
5. Shepparton Bypass (bypass route selected to the west of the town, but no funding yet for construction)
6. Strathmerton deviation (proposed, route selected, no funding yet for construction)


**would post a map but having trouble copying from Google maps
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #750
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189




This section is 2x2 the opposite carriageway behind the trees on the right.



At present there are only two grade separated junction on the highway both near Murchison East. Low traffic volume on freeway and nearly no traffic on cross roads which basically serves farms not justifying the cost of building overpasses on flat terrain.
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #751
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

The C391 is an interim truck bypass to the east of Shepparton; it is however a 1x1 road.


Roadsign showing mileage.


Fruitfly sign
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #752
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

The northern end of the Nagambie Bypass (to be completed next year)


The Goulburn Valley Hwy on the outskirts of Shepparton


Small country towns in Australia are about as exciting as this...this is the main street of Tallygaroopna, just off the A39 north of Shepparton.
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #753
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

For more information of road projects in regional Victoria: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...aRoadProjects/
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 01:58 PM   #754
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

I thought it would run close to Goulburn, NSW. Do people actually use this road to get from Melbourne to Brisbane? Wouldn't it be better via Sydney?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #755
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

Melbourne-Brisbane via inland route Hwy39 (Goulburn Valley/Newell/Gore/Warrego)- 1671km

Melbourne-Sydney via Inland route Hwy31 (Hume) - 875km
Sydney-Brisbane via coastal route Hwy1 (Pacific) - about 1000km perhaps more?
+ worry about getting through Sydney. Why would you bother if you don't intend on visiting Sydney??

plus speed limits would be roughly the same 110km/h most of the way either way. Fewer cars on Hwy 39 perhaps can go faster?

The Goulburn Valley in Victoria is unrelated to Goulburn in NSW which is about 500km away. The Valley in Victoria follows the Goulburn River which starts at Lake Eildon then runs west to Seymour then north via Shepparton before diverging northwest and spills into the Murray near Echuca.
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #756
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Ok, but I suppose this road was constructed mainly for local traffic. I doubt Melbourne and Brisbane really need two roads connecting them (or even Melbourne and Cairns, although the difference there is already 760 km).
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2011, 04:09 AM   #757
natfat madd
Nate0z197
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South coast, Nsw
Posts: 410
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by essendon bombers View Post
Melbourne-Brisbane via inland route Hwy39 (Goulburn Valley/Newell/Gore/Warrego)- 1671km

Melbourne-Sydney via Inland route Hwy31 (Hume) - 875km
Sydney-Brisbane via coastal route Hwy1 (Pacific) - about 1000km perhaps more?
+ worry about getting through Sydney. Why would you bother if you don't intend on visiting Sydney??

plus speed limits would be roughly the same 110km/h most of the way either way. Fewer cars on Hwy 39 perhaps can go faster?

The Goulburn Valley in Victoria is unrelated to Goulburn in NSW which is about 500km away. The Valley in Victoria follows the Goulburn River which starts at Lake Eildon then runs west to Seymour then north via Shepparton before diverging northwest and spills into the Murray near Echuca.
with the hume being so good and fast and the pacific catching up to the hume i'd rather go that way than getting stuck behind B-doubles and road trains with hardly any overtaking lanes and too many trucks coming the other way to pass them on the Newell. plus lots of dickhead truckies that take risks on the newell i'd rather risk my life on the pacific which has a little more overtaking lanes on the 1x1 parts and plenty of dual carrigeway. have you seen the amount of trucks that use the newell? its like almost as bad as the hume!
natfat madd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2011, 04:18 AM   #758
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Why are there so many trucks on the Newell Highway? It's not a densely-populated area, is it?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2011, 06:10 AM   #759
RDSA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 313
Likes (Received): 85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Why are there so many trucks on the Newell Highway? It's not a densely-populated area, is it?
rail freight in australia is pretty bad.
RDSA no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2011, 10:22 AM   #760
essendon bombers
QF9, SQ326, LH738, UA870
 
essendon bombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 868
Likes (Received): 189

Quote:
Originally Posted by natfat madd ****** View Post
with the hume being so good and fast and the pacific catching up to the hume i'd rather go that way than getting stuck behind B-doubles and road trains with hardly any overtaking lanes and too many trucks coming the other way to pass them on the Newell. plus lots of dickhead truckies that take risks on the newell i'd rather risk my life on the pacific which has a little more overtaking lanes on the 1x1 parts and plenty of dual carrigeway. have you seen the amount of trucks that use the newell? its like almost as bad as the hume!
It's a difference of opinion but I wouldn't bother having to worry about going through or skirting around Sydney if I didn't have to.

Agree that rail freight is bad; I wish that Australia would build an inland Melbourne-Brisbane rail line for freight instead of a high speed Melbourne-Sydney rail link which I am not quite convinced it will work economically; unfortunately people have the vote and freight doesn't so the latter is more likely to occur.

Verso, I don't consider the Hume / Pacific as the main route to Brisbane from Melbourne; I consider that Hwy 39 is the main route. The Hume is the main route to Melb-Syd and the Pacific now probably main route Syd-Brissy. If you want to drive to Cairns from Melb than I would probably take Hwy39 to Goondiwindi on the NSW/Qld state border than Qld A5 through Miles to Rockhampton, then the Bruce Hwy all the way upto Cairns.
essendon bombers no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
australia, highways, motorways, roads

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium