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Old February 3rd, 2007, 03:43 PM   #21
Bitxofo
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Originally Posted by Soufian View Post
There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.
This is impossible!!

Portugal and Spain gauge is wider than the rest of Europe gauge!
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 04:51 PM   #22
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some coaches and some freight wagons can change boogies at the border. That is done every day for freight trains between Spain and France. Anyway it is slow, a train can wait also 10 to 15 hours at the border, also for customs checks, that's way Spain is planning to convert all its network to the standard gauge.

Between western Europe and the ex-URSS nework, couplers must also be changed (chain and automatic, respectively).

I have read of a direct connection Madrid-Moscow, where bogies were replaced between Spain and France (1664==>1435) and somewhere between Poland and Lithuania or Belasu (1435==>1520).
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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
This is impossible!!

Portugal and Spain gauge is wider than the rest of Europe gauge!
There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/...ing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:14 PM   #24
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I think it's from Simes (Portugal) to Wladivostok (Russia).
In the futur, there will be a tunnel or a bridge between Europe and Africa: the longest journey will be Capetown (South Africa) - Wladivostok (Russia)
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN View Post
There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/...ing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable

Variable gauge axes, but, for Spain and Portugal, it would be better to convert the whole network ("only" 15.000 km) to the standard gauge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer View Post
the longest journey will be Capetown (South Africa) - Wladivostok (Russia)
In Africa there isn't a rail network but only hundreds of unconnected lines built with dozen of differents standards. But I think there is a nearly-continuous link between Cape Town and Cairo.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #26
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Pfft, you all talk about breaks of gauges on national borders. Australian states have different railway gauges. Luckily there's a separate national network that was built in the 60s.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 05:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
In Africa there isn't a rail network but only hundreds of unconnected lines built with dozen of differents standards. But I think there is a nearly-continuous link between Cape Town and Cairo.
The problem in Africa is that railway lines were build form the coast to the inlands so there aren't much railways between seperate countries. There is no railway from Egypt to Sudan, you can take the railway to the Aswan dam, but you have to continue by boat. Further south there are more gaps and you can't go in a direct line, going inland and to coast several times. And were there are railways on the map it doesn't mean that they are in service, there were (are) enough wars that have damaged railway lines and lack of maintenance is also a big problem.

So Europe - Asia is the biggest continuous link right now. I think the longest commercial passenger service is from Moscow to Beijing.
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Old February 5th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soufian View Post
There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.

And I think, in terms of this thread, you could hop on a train in Lulea, Sweden and end up in Hanoi Vietnam.....
That would be longer than Thorso-Hanoi I think?
You could never do this without changing trains, but I sense we are talking about the same thing ... only using certain English words differently.

My guess is that Lagos, Portugal, id probably further from Hanoi by rail than Thurso, Scotland is. Narvik, norway, looks more distant than Lulea, Sweden, but you could take a short-cut through Finland and St. Petersberg.

There was a railway from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) ... don't know if it's still working.

My rail atlas suggest you can travel from Capetown thus:

Capetown-Kimberely-Bulawayo(Zimbawe)-Victoria Falls-Lusaka(Zambia)-'Dar-es-Salam'(Tanzania)-Moshi-Voi(Kenya)-Nairobi-Mbale(Uganda)-Murchison Falls.

Maps on the internet suggest that the Iranians are bridging the gap between Yazd, Kerman, & Zahedan and hence there will be a continuous line (albeit with break of gauge) from Istanbul or Europe via Russia and Armenia to Chittagong, Bangladesh.
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Old February 6th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #29
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You cant cross the Bosporus by train...
But with the future metro line....
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Old February 7th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #30
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Are there rail ferry?

The Marmaray will be a railway, not a metro, so there will be a fixed rail link.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
some coaches and some freight wagons can change boogies at the border. That is done every day for freight trains between Spain and France. Anyway it is slow, a train can wait also 10 to 15 hours at the border, also for customs checks, that's way Spain is planning to convert all its network to the standard gauge.
Between western Europe and the ex-URSS nework, couplers must also be changed (chain and automatic, respectively).

I have read of a direct connection Madrid-Moscow, where bogies were replaced between Spain and France (1664==>1435) and somewhere between Poland and Lithuania or Belasu (1435==>1520).

It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN View Post
There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/...ing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable
Spain has its own gauge-changing system developed by Talgo. It's used on the border with France and also to allow trains to move between standard-gauge high-speed lines and the old broad-gauge network. Talgo also says that its system has been tested in Russia and Sweden.

P.S. The page you linked to is available in English.

Last edited by Gag Halfrunt; February 7th, 2007 at 08:37 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.
New Spanish high speed train ALViA can change boogies in 6-9 minutes!

Now, they go from Barcelona to Madrid in 3h.55min. But in December 2007: 2h.15min.!!
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川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old February 7th, 2007, 09:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.
With variable gauge axes, change can be done in a few minutes.

But this is different to change the bogies with fixes wheels. Freight wagons must be "elevated", their broad gauge bogies removed. Then, standard gauge bogies must be connected.

See http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations.php , the three pages about border stations between France and Spain.


Last edited by Coccodrillo; February 7th, 2007 at 10:00 PM.
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Old February 8th, 2007, 07:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soufian View Post

You cant cross the Bosporus by train...
But with the future metro line....
sorry, i meant Uskuda, or Scutari or whatever: which my atlas still calls "Istanbul".
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Old March 15th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
New Spanish high speed train ALViA can change boogies in 6-9 minutes!

Now, they go from Barcelona to Madrid in 3h.55min. But in December 2007: 2h.15min.!!
Alvia spanish HS trains have adjustable bogies, so they don't change them to pass from broad to standard gauge tracks or viceversa. Trains change their gauge without stopping, but passing slowly (20 km/h) through a change set.

The system to do it is called BRAVA, developed by CAF, and consists on wheel's displacement along the axles, and locking them in the position for the selected gauge. One similar procedure is followed for Talgo Trains.

Actually there is not a reliable way to change gauge of freight trains in Spain, except changing axles or bogies in border stations.
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Old March 28th, 2007, 10:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlucar-Playa View Post
Alvia spanish HS trains have adjustable bogies, so they don't change them to pass from broad to standard gauge tracks or viceversa. Trains change their gauge without stopping, but passing slowly (20 km/h) through a change set.

The system to do it is called BRAVA, developed by CAF, and consists on wheel's displacement along the axles, and locking them in the position for the selected gauge. One similar procedure is followed for Talgo Trains.

Actually there is not a reliable way to change gauge of freight trains in Spain, except changing axles or bogies in border stations.
I wonder if anyone has heard of this in Australia.
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Old March 29th, 2007, 02:53 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
I wonder if anyone has heard of this in Australia.
Not much point at the moment, all major cities are linked by standard gauge. Maybe if we had it in the 60's we could have made better progress.

QR's North Coast Line is the only big gap now but the Queensland network is largely separate north of the Brisbane Intermodal Terminal at Acacia Ridge.
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Old April 1st, 2007, 02:22 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by SM247 View Post
Not much point at the moment, all major cities are linked by standard gauge. Maybe if we had it in the 60's we could have made better progress.

QR's North Coast Line is the only big gap now but the Queensland network is largely separate north of the Brisbane Intermodal Terminal at Acacia Ridge.
You have a point, but having travelled to Cairns/ Kuranda ...

Sooner or later Tennant Creek will be connected to the East Coast .... that's when the trouble starts.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 12:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
According to my rail atlas:

New Delhi-Mumbai: 1384 km

but see my comments above.
There are train journeys longer than the one quoted above in India. New Delhi - Chennai: 2010 km. Guwahati - Trivandrum: 2500 + km. You don't have to switch trains.

Wouldn't The Ghan between Adelaide & Darwin qualify?
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