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Old March 3rd, 2008, 04:57 AM   #261
Gamma-Hamster
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Let's look at The Cologne-Frankfurt high-speed rail line:

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The Cologne-Frankfurt high-speed rail line (in German: Neubaustrecke Köln-Rhein/Main) is a 177 km long railway line in Germany, connecting the cities of Cologne and Frankfurt.
Quote:
maximum speed : 300 km/h
Quote:
The route as finally designed was intended to allow trains to cover the distance between Cologne and Frankfurt in 58 minutes,[4] although the current fastest time is 70 minutes, due to uncompleted work at rail junctions in Cologne and Frankfurt.[5]
(c)wiki
Let's see 177km / 1-1,15h = 152-177kmh average speed

I see two variants: either Cologne-Frankfurt line is complete shit and is not worthy of being called a high speed line, or average speed being significantly lower than maximum speed is completely normal and some people here are talking out of their asses.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:27 AM   #262
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Don't you love it when people from Russia starts trashing everybody else and lashing out as soon as questions about their own country are raised and then feel as though a vendetta must be pursued against those who have violated Russian "dignity"....

Give me a break and grow up.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:32 AM   #263
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Also, Lorraine-TGV to Champagne-Ardenne-TGV is has an average start to finish speed of 279.3 km/h, just in case you wanted to know.

I just want to point out that no-one here was trashing the Moscow-St Petersberg line, but merely asking whether or not the speed of 250km/h was sustained throughout the entire line rather than a specified maximum speed for certain segments of it.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:32 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma-Hamster View Post
And where in Europe do we have a line where trains travel at 250kmh average speed?
For example, Barcelona-Madrid and Madrid-Sevilla/Málaga...


In about 500Km from Barcelona to Madrid, the Spanish TGV -AVE- reaches 300Km/h continously, for the direct trains. Next year, it might be higher, if they apply the ERTMS level II, even close to 350Km/h...

Last edited by Aurelio; March 3rd, 2008 at 11:40 PM.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:44 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirtaheri View Post
Also, Lorraine-TGV to Champagne-Ardenne-TGV is has an average start to finish speed of 279.3 km/h, just in case you wanted to know.

I just want to point out that no-one here was trashing the Moscow-St Petersberg line, but merely asking whether or not the speed of 250km/h was sustained throughout the entire line rather than a specified maximum speed for certain segments of it.
250km/h is the maximum speed not the average.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:50 AM   #266
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For the purposes of my map can someone give me the geographical locations of where these various speeds are attained, then I can put it on the map.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 12:36 PM   #267
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The 250km/h maximum won't start between Moscow and St Petersburg until 2010 when the new trains are introduced
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 02:31 PM   #268
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Thanks but that wasn't the question. Which sections of line are suitable for 250km/h operation if any yet, which other sections will be complete by the time the new trains are introduced, and what are the other future plans?
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 05:09 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjkjk View Post
Today that 200 km/h max train is making 639 km route Moscow - St Petersburg at 4:30 - average speed app. 144 km/h
The new Velaro trains will do the same trip in 3:45 - average speed approx 160km/h (100mph) according to the Russian Railways website.

http://www.eng.rzd.ru/wps/portal/rzdeng/fp

The timings would suggest that the train will run at 200km/h (125mph) on most of the line with a shorter section at 250km/h (155mph).

The website mentions a new high speed line for 2013 or 2014
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 05:12 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Thanks but that wasn't the question. Which sections of line are suitable for 250km/h operation if any yet, which other sections will be complete by the time the new trains are introduced, and what are the other future plans?
Apologies. You could try Russian Railways:


http://www.eng.rzd.ru/wps/portal/rzdeng?STRUCTURE_ID=13
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 05:18 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Thanks but that wasn't the question. Which sections of line are suitable for 250km/h operation if any yet, which other sections will be complete by the time the new trains are introduced, and what are the other future plans?
Unfortunately the Russian railway infrastructure folks don't post this information in public forums.

I have notes which suggest that 6-7 or seven projects which are each shorter than 20 km each have been completed. This work is anticipating a long term goal to create a 250km/h railway by building many short stretches when funds are available which will eventually be linked into a high speed line.

It will take years to complete a high speed line so the Russian Velaro's will mostly be operating at 200 km/h or less less for many years to come. The other problem which has not been addressed in Russia is the modern signaling required to run high speed trains at the instensity of 4-6 per hour. Currently there is only one train per day in the time tables which operates at 144 km/h.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:00 PM   #272
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:16 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma-Hamster View Post
And where in Europe do we have a line where trains travel at 250kmh average speed?
This Should answer your question. click on "World Speed Survey, 2007" for the full report (second paragraph):

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_v...rformance.html

See page #557 for the Moscow - St. Petersburg line in the context of this bi-annual survey.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:19 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
Unfortunately the Russian railway infrastructure folks don't post this information in public forums.

Perhaps a personal request might bear fruit, unless the Russians think that divulging line speeds has security implications:


Press Centre

Requests for information and interviews:


Dear Colleagues,


If you require any information, comments or interviews with the Company's senior management or want to make pictures and TV shootings at Russian railway stations, please write to Sergei Vladimirovich Mikhailov, Head of Corporate Communications at Russian Railways, using your publication's headed stationery.


The letter should contain a brief description on the subject of the article or interview, a full list of questions if possible, the desired deadline for responses, the correspondent s contact details and, ideally, some brief information about the publication.


Letters can be sent by:


Fax: +7 (495) 262-38-72

Tel: +7 (495) 262 37 05


or post to:


107174,
Moscow,
Novaya Basmannaya Ulitsa,
Dom 2,
Press Service,
Russian Railways
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:23 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chafford1 View Post
Apologies. You could try Russian Railways:


http://www.eng.rzd.ru/wps/portal/rzdeng?STRUCTURE_ID=13
I visit this site about once a week and my information usually comes from their press releases which are rarely very specific. Typical announcement is:
Quote:
10 million roubles invested north of Tver
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:18 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
It will take years to complete a high speed line so the Russian Velaro's will mostly be operating at 200 km/h or less less for many years to come. .
It will be completed in december 2008. It will take 3,5 hours from Moscow to St. Petersburg, which qualifies as a highspeed line.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 09:06 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma-Hamster View Post
It will be completed in december 2008. It will take 3,5 hours from Moscow to St. Petersburg, which qualifies as a highspeed line.
3 hours 45 minutes according to the Russian Railways website at an average speed of 100mph (160km/h) which definitely qualifies as high speed.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 09:16 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chafford1 View Post
3 hours 45 minutes according to the Russian Railways website at an average speed of 100mph (160km/h) which definitely qualifies as high speed.
Well, i have heard 3h 30m, but even with 3:45 it should be 170kmh, not 160
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:36 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamma-Hamster View Post
It will be completed in december 2008. It will take 3,5 hours from Moscow to St. Petersburg, which qualifies as a highspeed line.
Please cite a source for this information? Unfortunately I do not speak Russian so I have to rely on translations.

When I refer to a high speed railway, I expect multiple trains in the period of an hour to operate for long stretches at speeds of at least 250 km/h.

I don't believe that Moscow to St. Petersburg route will qualify by 2008 so I would like a referecne which will convince me that more than one train per day will be operating at these speeds.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:48 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
Please cite a source for this information?
I already did, it was my first post here?

Quote:
When I refer to a high speed railway, I expect multiple trains in the period of an hour
Number of trains per hour has nothing to do with speed of the line. We don't need so much trains between Moscow and St.Petersburg.

Quote:
to operate for long stretches at speeds of at least 250 km/h.
It will travel at 250km/h at some parts of the line, otherwise it won't achieve 170 km/h average speed.
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