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Old February 8th, 2007, 03:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Cordoue/Cordoba-Malaga nearly completed
Madrid-Valence/Valencia under construction
Turin-Milan-Naples nearly or yet completed (maybe open in 2009)
Paris-Metz-Strasbourg opens to Metz next June
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
London-Eurotunnel nearly completed (opens this year)
Bruxelles-Amsterdam under construction
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!
So, do you have an up to date map without "wishes" and with real HSL (more than 250km/h) ?
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Old February 8th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #22
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No, but on Trainspotting Bükkes ( http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps.php ) you can find maps of all European nations.

High-speed lines are all electrified with 25 kV AC, and, as in Spain, Italy, Netherlands and Belgium use that current only on HSL, you can easily find them (with the exception of two lines in Belgium, near Luxembourg, that also use 25 kV without being an HS line, and in Italy, Roma-Firenze is HS but electrified in 3 kV).
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Old February 9th, 2007, 12:05 AM   #23
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Brussels-Amsterdam is completed though not operational yet. The opening has just been put back a further couple of months.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 05:26 AM   #24
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In the map of Spain, you must add:

-Madrid-Toledo: done.
-Zaragoza-Huesca: done.
-Lleida-Tarragona: done.
-Barcelona-French border: under construction now.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 10:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Cordoue/Cordoba-Malaga nearly completed
Madrid-Valence/Valencia under construction
Turin-Milan-Naples nearly or yet completed (maybe open in 2009)
Paris-Metz-Strasbourg opens to Metz next June
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
London-Eurotunnel nearly completed (opens this year)
Bruxelles-Amsterdam under construction
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!
Dijon-Mulhouse: under construction (open in 2011)
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Old February 9th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!
Er...yes I do. The French Ministery of Equipment annouced earlier this week that the construction will start next year. First they will build the Lyon-Chambéry section, due to open in 2011 (the journey will then shrink from 1h20 to 22 minutes !!!). The rest will be connected to the Italian network later, appearently by at the latest by 2020.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 01:08 AM   #27
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Does the average speed of 160 km/h count as high speed? Or if not, what's that minimum speed?
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Old February 10th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #28
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I think high speed starts at 250 km/h...
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Old February 10th, 2007, 01:33 AM   #29
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^ On the other hand, it's subjective, what's fast and what's slow; in a small, not very transit country, 160 km/h should be more than enough.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 02:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karakuri View Post
Er...yes I do. The French Ministery of Equipment annouced earlier this week that the construction will start next year. First they will build the Lyon-Chambéry section, due to open in 2011 (the journey will then shrink from 1h20 to 22 minutes !!!). The rest will be connected to the Italian network later, appearently by at the latest by 2020.
The problem is on Italian side, where Nimbys protests (supported by parties in the Governement) could stop any decisions on HSL realization
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Old February 10th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
The planned maximum speed for the Gotthard base tunnel is 250km/h so that's real HS.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 07:39 PM   #32
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Yes, but in the Gotthard base tunnel will run even ordinary trains, will they?
So if even a little stretch has a 'mixed' used, we can't consider the line really HS...
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Old February 10th, 2007, 09:18 PM   #33
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The new Gotthard railway is built mainly for freight trains.

I think that passenger trains will run at no more than 200 km/h, greater speeds would reduce capacity.

And yet, the main tunnel will be passed (at 200 km/h) in 17 minutes, compared to 1h10 today via the existing line.
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Old February 10th, 2007, 11:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post

So if even a little stretch has a 'mixed' used, we can't consider the line really HS...
You only consider exclusive HS tracks as HS? The new Cisalpina will hopefully run with 250km/h throught the tunnel. Chances get lower for that if the Porta Alpina gets build (hopefully it won't).
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Old February 12th, 2007, 12:00 AM   #35
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Italian high speed rail network (TAV):
[IMG]http://i10.************/2q99kxl.jpg[/IMG]

The legend reads:
Operational
U/C
Planned
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Old February 13th, 2007, 01:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revas View Post
I think high speed starts at 250 km/h...
According to European Union rules, high speed is 200kph or more.

Anyway, sometimes average commercial speeds, including stops, are around 170-180kph.
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old February 13th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
According to European Union rules, high speed is 200kph or more.
Wrong: this is 250km/h.
200 km/h means "fast track" but nor "high speed track".
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Old February 14th, 2007, 04:30 AM   #38
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You are wrong, with the new rules it is 200kph or more.
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David (DavoR for my friends)
川添 Kawazoe (riverside) 海斗 Kaito (big dipper of the ocean), in Japanese.
Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old February 14th, 2007, 02:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitxofo View Post
You are wrong, with the new rules it is 200kph or more.
If it's so, those maps above have several mistakes excluding Finnish HSR tracks. Since September 2006 trains between Kerava and Lahti have been able to run at 220 km/h.


[source: RHK]


[source: RHK]

Furthermore there are several long tracks that allow trains to run slightly slower than 200 km/h.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 06:25 PM   #40
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The definition of HSL is basically dedicated tracks not shared with other types of traffic, ie freight, commuter, regional or slower long distance trains. This is why HSL is so expensive, it can only be used exclusively by High speed trains and require much higher safety standards. This is also the reason why most european countries yet haven't built any HSL or "high speed line".

HSL is also a financial risk, for example the Shinkansen which is the most successfull HSL network to this date have yet to turn profit. And the TGV is financially bleeding.

Last edited by gincan; February 14th, 2007 at 06:46 PM.
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