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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:46 AM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad View Post
Is it just me who looks at this map and thinks the Eurostar is screaming to go to Cologne/Frankfurt?
No, I've thought exactly the same thing. I think the service to Brussels could actually continue, alternating between services to Amsterdam and services to Germany.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 01:43 AM   #582
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MISC | Rail Maps

Couldn't find any threads about railway art so how about kicking one off here.

If you like looking at those nostalgic, evocative and beautiful images of railway/railroad publicity get them posted on this new thread.

Here's a handful which look just wonderful:

London Midland Scottish network poster
Dating from the early 1920s this was the first railway poster I was lucky enough to buy in an antique shop in the 1980s.
image hosted on flickr



1900 Midland Railway network
Check out at the quality of these beautiful illustrations alongside a detailed map of the Midlands' massive network.

image hosted on flickr



Indian Railways
Colonial industrial development gave the Indian sub-continent a superb railroad network (seen here on an 1893 map)- much of it still in use today
image hosted on flickr


Mid 1800s US Railroad poster
Showing the Chicago terminus of the "Old Favorite" line between the mid west and the west coast
image hosted on flickr


The Los Angeles Limited
Union Pacific's flagship train from 1905 onwards
image hosted on flickr


Chemin de Fer du Nord trans-manche service
Way before the Channel Tunnel you took a boat-train across the 23 miles of water between UK and France. French rail company pushed the connection with these attractive early 20th Century posters
image hosted on flickr





* Please note most of these have come from the UK's National Railway Museum (http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/s...?cat=TRANSPORT) or have been found online. They should ALL be over 75 years old and therefore not restricted by copyright issues. If for whatever reason you know that one or other of my or other people's posts includes copyrighted material then they will obviously be removed.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 02:53 AM   #583
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1920s French Rail Network

After a slow start France rapidly built up an impressive rail network - shown here in the early 1920s.

image hosted on flickr
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Old May 8th, 2009, 11:20 AM   #584
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Welcome back to the forums Mark... I thought you'd forgotten your password!
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #585
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Love the old Tube posters...









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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:35 PM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Welcome back to the forums Mark... I thought you'd forgotten your password!
Hey Tubey - yep still here (been mainly on Manchester forums for my sins).

Love those old Underground posters, they are just wonderful aren't they?

So you got any old (mainline) Railway posters to...post???
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #587
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I haven´t been through all 26 pages so maybe this map has appeared before.
I think it is fairly accurate and is certainly grafically easy to read.


[IMG]http://i26.************/29bg70o.gif[/IMG]
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Old July 9th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #588
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Come a long way from the thread title. Anyway, here is a link to some detailed European rail maps.

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/maps.php
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Old July 9th, 2009, 10:15 PM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Um no, I said that few countries in europe have real highspeed lines because they are to expensive, only France have a network as of today. The german ICE have only short sections of dedicated tracks in Germany yet, the train is highspeed but most of the tracks are not. The Pendolino in for example Finland is highspeed train on conventional tracks, it is not a highspeed line.

You have to make a diffrence between highspeed trains and highspeed tracks, without dedicated tracks the speedlimit is basically 200-250 wheras on highspeed tracks trains run at 300 and beyond.
That's not correct.
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Old July 10th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
The definition of HSL is basically dedicated tracks not shared with other types of traffic, ie freight, commuter, regional or slower long distance trains. This is why HSL is so expensive, it can only be used exclusively by High speed trains and require much higher safety standards. This is also the reason why most european countries yet haven't built any HSL or "high speed line".

HSL is also a financial risk, for example the Shinkansen which is the most successfull HSL network to this date have yet to turn profit. And the TGV is financially bleeding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21 View Post
I have found out that there is no standard definition of "high speed rail". Minimum speed of highspeed rails seem to vary with 160km/h, 200km/h, 250km/h.
Considering that the rail line Hamburg-Berlin was upgraded in 2004 for speeds of 230km/h, it would qualify as highspeed rail in two of the cases above (the german railway company classifies this track as a highspeed rail). So the map Dee Hinnov showed us is probably incorrect.
You guys are making a couple of wrong assumptions here.

1) HSL ae not "passenger only"
2) freight over HSL is being projected in various places (even where the routes are being projected for 350km/h)
3) most of the main routes are well served by upgradeable railways already ... some are even operated daily with 160/200 km/h trains already so the usefullness of a new dedicated HSR along it's corridor is let's say ... a little dubious. unno:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Um no, I said that few countries in europe have real highspeed lines because they are to expensive, only France have a network as of today. The german ICE have only short sections of dedicated tracks in Germany yet, the train is highspeed but most of the tracks are not. The Pendolino in for example Finland is highspeed train on conventional tracks, it is not a highspeed line.

You have to make a diffrence between highspeed trains and highspeed tracks, without dedicated tracks the speedlimit is basically 200-250 wheras on highspeed tracks trains run at 300 and beyond.
HSR in portugal is built with a "minimum" speed of 250km/h in mind ... some are being planned/projected/on the verge of starting the constructions as "mixed" traffic and at speeds of 300/350 km/h.

Only if there's more than 2 tracks they dedicate a couple of them to HS passenger services ... if they are only 2 tracks then you can bet they will put freight over them.

Mos of the "dedicated" HSR everywhere were "limited" to 250/270km/h until a decade ago ... even when they were built for-passengers-only ... whet dictated that limitation were technological factors (And not that many economical/Cost factors were taken into acount) ... they simply didn't have enough long straight sections to put those lines at higher speeds.

France = long sections
Spain = long sections
Everywhere else ... if you can find a 50/100km section to build you are a lucky one.
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Old July 15th, 2009, 01:22 AM   #591
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In the UK we only need a 180+mph link from Scotland to London, to compete with airplanes...but 125mph everywhere else is fine, you can get to London for a dayout easily from Manchester...I've done it several time...
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Old July 15th, 2009, 02:41 AM   #592
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
In the UK we only need a 180+mph link from Scotland to London, to compete with airplanes...but 125mph everywhere else is fine, you can get to London for a dayout easily from Manchester...I've done it several time...
Uk speed and timetables are not so bad; Liverpool/Manchester/Bristol to London are Ok, no need for a 300 km/h line there (well, only if it´s part of a link to Scotland in the case of Liverpool and Manchester)
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Old July 15th, 2009, 05:18 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
No, I've thought exactly the same thing. I think the service to Brussels could actually continue, alternating between services to Amsterdam and services to Germany.
Or maybe the ICE3 can come to London...
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Old July 15th, 2009, 09:24 AM   #594
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The ICE3 is not allowed to use the Chunnel.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 12:08 AM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoKo65 View Post
The ICE3 is not allowed to use the Chunnel.
Oh really?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6307749.ece


ICE3 will come through the Chunnel before a Eurostar ever runs on the Cologne-Frankfurt NBS.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #596
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Here's a question. Once other operators are allowed to use the Chunnel, would they be able to use St. Pancras? It doesn't seem like there would be enough room.

And this whole thing is a mess, by the way. Cut to 2020, fifteen loud low-cost operators fighting over the Chunnel. Eurostar isn't looking so bad right now.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 05:42 AM   #597
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And another thing. If they want to put ICEs in the UK, they will have to paint the noses yellow! It's the law...
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Old July 16th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
Here's a question. Once other operators are allowed to use the Chunnel, would they be able to use St. Pancras? It doesn't seem like there would be enough room.
There are 6 platform tracks for international and 3 for domestic high speed services in St Pancras. Capacity constraints are more likely to appear on the high speed line itself rather than in St Pancras station.
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Old July 16th, 2009, 10:14 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Oh really?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6307749.ece


ICE3 will come through the Chunnel before a Eurostar ever runs on the Cologne-Frankfurt NBS.
With the today's safety rules there will be no service between Frankfurt and London (and even a London–Cologne service would be very expensive) and no ICE3 in the Chunnel.
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Old July 18th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Oh really?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6307749.ece


ICE3 will come through the Chunnel before a Eurostar ever runs on the Cologne-Frankfurt NBS.
Bullshit ... the rules are the rulles.

ICE3 "can't" use the Eurotunnel and that is deffinitive ... they would need to be heavilly modified to be allowed down there.

Eurostars ... welll ... considering that SNCF has 8 small sets ... if they decided to put them in the Thalys services who would complain ??? (this of course considering the easily modifications/compatibility to allow them in that routes).

Quote:
The German transport operator wants to develop freight and passenger routes into Britain using High Speed 1, the new fast track from the Channel Tunnel to St Pancras, but present safety regulations permit only Eurostar trains that are configured as two trains joined together with a locomotive at each end. To send its trains through the tunnel, Deutsche Bahn needs to gain consent for trains that do not have the special Eurostar configuration that can split in the middle.

Rail industry sources say that Deutsche Bahn is close to an agreement and is keen to develop direct services using its ICE fleet of high-speed trains to Britain. An industry insider said: “I would not be surprised if by 2012 you looked up at the departure board at St Pancras and saw Cologne and Frankfurt services operated by Deutsche Bahn.”
No ... they are two half sets joined in the middle ... the 3 bogies in each extreme are motored so theres no "unpowered" isolated car in the middle of two locomotives.

I wonder why they don't recurrently refer to the ICE3 as a couple of electric units pushing/pulling conventional rollingstock ... it would be as biased as the neverending naming of the TGV sets as "conventional with locomotive".

If trains were (in their time) allowed to have passengers on the end cars we would have never had such things as ICE1 /TGV /Eurostar /ETR500 and others ... and one must remember the problems that DB had with the ICE2 in multiple preciselly because of the cabcars with passengers.

So we can assume that if DB is to go over the tunnel to the UK they will need to adapt tho tre environment ... and not the other way around.

Last time I (and everyone else) looked around there were some Eurostar sets to spare ... and the DB has a huge interest in joining SNCF in the Eurostar franchises namely ...

EurostarUK franchise ends next year
British gov. want's to sell
DB want's to buy

1+1+1 = ????
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Last edited by sotavento; July 18th, 2009 at 01:08 AM.
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