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Old July 22nd, 2009, 12:30 PM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
U mean Brenner? Or maybe San Gottardo - since this would be shorter way for FR-Milano?
There are voices for a Muenchen-Zuerich-Milano train from 2013, date of electrification of the Lindau-Geltendorf section of this line. And with the Gotthard Base Tunnel this will probably be faster than the Brenner, at least until the opening of the Brenner Base Tunnel.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 03:38 PM   #622
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Of course I meant Gotthard and not Brenner (for Frankfurt - Milano). Should have read my post before sending...
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Old July 30th, 2009, 03:05 AM   #623
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Is the UK requirement of yellow noses in line with EU regulations? It really frustrates interopability within the EU if every country has it's own requirements for the way the front of each train should look like. Especially if countries have contradicting requirements, for example if the noses have to be white in some other country.

Furthermore, there are (almost?) no level crossings on such dedicated high speed lines as the High Speed 1. There might be less need for yellow fronts, which might make the UK requirement unreasonable for foreign rail carriers who want to enter the cross-border market to London.

Here in Holland, yellow OR white fronts are required. But still, the Thalys high speed trains can come and go while they have red noses. This might be because the requirement became effective after the Thalys was put into service, but I wonder what would happen if Thalys ordered new trains with red fronts.
The front of the train needs to be EASY TO SEE ... every country uses what suits them ... every operator should use what suits their local environment ...


oh ... and most private companies just go with their corporate colors and dammned be the visibility.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #624
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you know, the single market was created because protectionism was no longer related to tariffs, which had been abolished thanks to the EEC. For example, the fireproof paint composition was different in each country, just by a single element that did not really make any difference, but factories would have had to adapt the whole production line for a new type of paint and therefore each country had its own firm dedicated to that. Another example, the french forcing all cars to have yellow instead of white lights because they thought it was more safe, that increased costs for automakers wishing to export to france as they also had to adapt a part of the assembly line to exclusively put in a different light colour. As ArthurK suggests, I don't think this case of the trains that need to be painted in yellow is different.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 09:48 PM   #625
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this article is a bit older, but interesting for this discussion though

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2782419.ece
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Old August 1st, 2009, 06:40 PM   #626
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this article is a bit older, but interesting for this discussion though

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle2782419.ece
Yes, but it says nothing about the check-in procedures. Because of them a service between Germany and London won't be possible.
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:30 PM   #627
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Pessimistic German railroad fans....

Impossible is nothing. If you only want a solution, you will find one - that's for sure!
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 10:25 PM   #628
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Pessimistic German railroad fans....

Impossible is nothing. If you only want a solution, you will find one - that's for sure!
Nice slogan, but reality is a bit more complicated.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 03:39 AM   #629
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I would like to have a HSR-link Paris-Brussels-Rotterdam-Utrecht-Groningen-Bremen-Hamburg-Copenhagen-Stockholm.
Paris-Brussels-Rotterdam-Utrecht-Groningen-Bremen-Hamburg, yes.

But from the danish border and northwards, nope- at least not in a long, long time. Scandinavia is passivity land. Hot air land. Many, many and way too many studies and a lot of bla bla from the authorities but not much is getting done in investing in HSR. Perhaps Norway might start getting busy, but Denmark or Sweden? Nah. Not in a long time.
Sorry to disappoint you.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 05:48 AM   #630
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Pretty pathetic on them. These countries are suppose to be among the most progressive yet they oppose HSL through their countries.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 12:34 PM   #631
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Pretty pathetic on them. These countries are suppose to be among the most progressive yet they oppose HSL through their countries.
Scandinavian countries are indeed amongs the most progressive in the world but they are useless when i comes to infrastructure. Usually big infrastructure projects take between 40 and 50 years to realise. Now the HSR project through Sweden only really begun in the mid 1990s so a HSR before 2030-2040 is almost out of the cuestion.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 07:10 AM   #632
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Originally Posted by Dinivan View Post
you know, the single market was created because protectionism was no longer related to tariffs, which had been abolished thanks to the EEC. For example, the fireproof paint composition was different in each country, just by a single element that did not really make any difference, but factories would have had to adapt the whole production line for a new type of paint and therefore each country had its own firm dedicated to that. Another example, the french forcing all cars to have yellow instead of white lights because they thought it was more safe, that increased costs for automakers wishing to export to france as they also had to adapt a part of the assembly line to exclusively put in a different light colour. As ArthurK suggests, I don't think this case of the trains that need to be painted in yellow is different.
Please face reality ... the "common market" is a conglomerate of various individual groups of interests ...


point one - each and every train trying to cross the channel tunnel will need to comply to the rules aplied there (so no ICE3 would ever cross without large remodeling/modification) ...

point two - the "visibility" rules aply everywhere ... in the green UK it was deemed that a yellow front was the right choise ... the front of the train NEEDS to be visible ... usually they go with yellow fronts in GREENER countries and with RED fronts in places where it snows ... go figure.
Yellow = UK , NL , Poland , Spain(until recently it was the official color) , Portugal(EMU's+shunters) , others
Red = Germany , Swithzerland , Austria , Portugal (locomotives+emu/dmu)


So for a ICE3 train to go to the UK it will need to have a yellow front and comply to the CT security rules ... it's "doable" ... just see the Eurostar trainsets ... pure TGV trainset with yellow cab/front and security measures implemented.

And the remaining of your rant" is complete bias ... railways aply everywhere ...

Offtopic: in every environment (except in snow) the "white" color is a high visibility choise.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 10:45 AM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
point two - the "visibility" rules aply everywhere ... in the green UK it was deemed that a yellow front was the right choise ... the front of the train NEEDS to be visible ... usually they go with yellow fronts in GREENER countries and with RED fronts in places where it snows ... go figure.
Yellow = UK , NL ,
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Old August 7th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #634
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Map in Thursday's Guardian: http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-file.../RAIL_0508.pdf
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Old August 7th, 2009, 11:03 PM   #635
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They were yellow ... now they are white ... the rule still aplies ... it doesn't snow that much in the netherlands dows it ???
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old August 7th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #636
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They were yellow ... now they are white ... the rule still aplies ... it doesn't snow that much in the netherlands dows it ???
What the hell are you talking about, you are just making up rules that do not exist. Does the ICE have a red front?

In the Netherlands there was never a rule about this as far a I know. Look at this old train:


or this one:


These train are still allowed to run here.

To make trains visible you can use the wonderful invention of the headlight. Which in the Netherlands are traditionally yellow, but on new trains also white.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 10:48 AM   #637
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They were yellow ... now they are white ... the rule still aplies ... it doesn't snow that much in the netherlands dows it ???
You're stark raving mad. Yellow noses were never a rule in the Netherlands, but for a while, entire trains were painted yellow because NS adopted that as their company's dominant color.

Don't drag us into your mess.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 01:53 AM   #638
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How many of those future lines will actually get built?

Some of those seem optimistic. A lot of the countries have better uses for public money, i.e. having a more widespread rail network at more rudimentary speeds. Jumping straight to high speed rail doesn't seem plausible. Although perhaps their definition of hsr being 250km/h may make them a less of a step than you may think at first.

Also, just looking through the nations. Germany has already 1285km of HSR, with over a 1000km more at the "development phase" and yet I can't see anything like that on their map. 3 new sections with the longest being from Nuremberg.
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Last edited by ghost101; August 11th, 2009 at 02:01 AM.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 02:02 AM   #639
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@Slagathor: There are certainly some rules regarding the visibility of trainfronts in The Netherlands. They are in a ministerial regulation under the Dutch Railroad Act. These rules are very complex (if you can read Dutch: see them here at page 20), but the bottomline is that new constructed trains should have a certain size of a white or yellow painted area on their front. However, the rule does not apply on historical trains and trains which already existed when these rules came into effect (2005).

The new Sprinter Light Train (SLT) posted by Slagathor has enough white on it's front. The other Dutch trains posted above were put into service before the new rules came into effect and are used for historical railway trips, so these rules do not apply to them. It is disputable whether the latest series of the VIRM double stock trainsets are in line with the regulation, because they have too less yellow and were ordered after 2005:

Source

Last edited by ArthurK; August 11th, 2009 at 02:12 AM.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 10:37 AM   #640
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That rule is as good as redundant, nobody pays any attention to it.
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