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Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:10 PM   #81
elfabyanos
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This is simila to the excellent one Eomer posted on the previous page, usefully showing the projected dates actually on the mpa instead of in a key.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:23 PM   #82
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This is pretty good, from www.railteam.eu


I would add obviously the last little bit to London is now complete, also the Turin - Milan section on the italian network, but some parts of LGV est, still u/c are shown as complete.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:59 PM   #83
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In Spain, the HSL section to Málaga is going to open this December the 23rd, not in 2010.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 05:41 PM   #84
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Likewise the link to London is open 2007, but there is an HSL shown running south from Strasbourg which doesn't exist. Also the opening date for the France-Spain LGV is now 2012.

Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.
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Old December 4th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #85
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The Basque Y website also has maps for 2006, 2010 and 2020:

http://www.euskalyvasca.com/en/co_experiencias.html
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Old December 5th, 2007, 02:38 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.
It is not on the last list, and got there at a first place only because De Robien was transports minister.
Munich-Ulm is U/C and Ulm Stuttgart will kick off works in 2010. I never heard of of the Stuttgart-Basel project...
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Old December 5th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #87
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I never heard of of the Stuttgart-Basel project...
There is a project in progress to quadruple the entire line from Karlsrhue to Basel. The nominal speed for the new lines is 250 km/h but sections will be limited to 200 km/h. 8km was completed about 10 years ago and most of the line from Karlsrhue to Offenberg is now coimplete but it is only operating at 160 km/h as the signalling for higher speeds cannot been activated untill all the engines using the line are equiped. The Offenberg to Basel section might be complete by 2012 or at least 20 years after the work began.
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Last edited by Trainman Dave; December 5th, 2007 at 01:28 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.
This line has always been political as the Picardy region was very upset about Amien being bypasses by the LGV-nord.

If you study the existing network, the section between Vemars junction and the triangle south of Lille is rapidly becoming one of the most conjested sections of the HSL network and there will have to be an increase in capacity during the next 20-30 years. the options are tripling or quadrupling the existing line or building the LGV-picardy.

LGV-picardy would be an attractive political solution in France but it is a very poor operational solution as it only diverts the Eurostars on the Paris - London route and the TGV's to the Channel cities in France. Expanding the exisitng line would be a much more effective operational solution.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 03:46 PM   #89
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I think traveltimes would be a good indicator, for example Madrid-Sevilla is designated as a 300km/h but it only runs at that speed for about 10km, traveltime is 2h30m wich gives a median speed of close to 200km/h, far from the 250-260 km/h median that you have for example on the Paris-Lyon or the new Madrid-Barcelona. It would be confusing to map all HSR lines as similar when there in fact are a huge differances in between them.
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Old December 5th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainman Dave View Post
LGV-picardy would be an attractive political solution in France but it is a very poor operational solution as it only diverts the Eurostars on the Paris - London route and the TGV's to the Channel cities in France. Expanding the exisitng line would be a much more effective operational solution.
There's a similar problem with the Paris-Lyon High-speed line, which seems to be running out of spare capacity very quickly. Recently they came up with a proposal of a second line to Lyon via central France, not as direct as the old LGV to Lyon but allowing the TGV to also reach Clermont-Ferrand and other medium size cities north of the Massif Central. Sounds more attractive than just adding another two tracks to the existing line. Unfortunately this kind of solution wouldn't work for the LGV-Picardie.

Last edited by AR1182; December 7th, 2007 at 07:42 AM.
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Old December 6th, 2007, 03:08 AM   #91
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I don't recall seeing too many TGV Duplex on the LGV Nord, is that not an option for the capacity problems at first? And are SNCF still persuing the Grand Duplex?
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Old December 6th, 2007, 02:04 PM   #92
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I don't recall seeing too many TGV Duplex on the LGV Nord, is that not an option for the capacity problems at first? And are SNCF still persuing the Grand Duplex?
Not really as there are a large number of diverse destinations in northern france which do not generate enough traffic to support the Duplex options. SNCF is already combining and splitting trains at Arras to serve the smaller cites arrounf Lille.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 04:33 AM   #93
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In that case, why is LGV Picardy with some spurs not an option?
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Old December 7th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #94
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In that case, why is LGV Picardy with some spurs not an option?
The route bypasses all the large communities in the Lille region and serves only Dunkerque, Calais, Boulogne which are relatively small traffic generators when compared to the suburbs of Lille.

The Eurostar trains already carry about the same number of passengers as a pair of Duplex trains.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 05:47 PM   #95
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The Eurostar trains already carry about the same number of passengers as a pair of Duplex trains.
The ex-Eurostar trains used by SNCF on the LGV Nord carry up to 592 ("Regional" trainsets) or 794 ("Three capitals" trainsets) passengers. This is much less than a double Duplex, which has 1024 seats.

But, as you said, seating capacity doesn't seem to be the problem. If it was, SNCF could use some of the Duplex trainsets they recently ordered or still reconfigure the interiors of the trainsets that today run between Paris and the north, since the shorter distances don't require the same seat pitch as on trains to the east, south and west of France.

I guess they will increasingly run double trainsets on the LGV-Nord and separate them once they have left the line. Same with Thalys and Provence-Provence TGVs.

Last edited by AR1182; December 7th, 2007 at 06:03 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 12:56 AM   #96
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There is also TGV Duplex grande capacité:

http://www.entreprise-sncf.com/sncf_demain/tgvgp.html

Maybe a solution for core routes (Lille, as you say)
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Old December 12th, 2007, 11:58 PM   #97
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I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.

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Old December 13th, 2007, 02:07 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.
Good work! Anyway, some notes:
France - from LGV Rhin-Rhone is U/C only section Mulhouse to Dijon
- LGV Perpignan-Figueres (France/Spain border) is U/C
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Old December 13th, 2007, 03:45 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.

Nice work. Four observations:

- Cologne-Düren has been upgraded for 250 Km/h a few years ago.
- Some parts of the Basel-Karlsruhe mainline are being upgraded for 250 Km/h, but I'm not sure which ones.
- You can add the new Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland since it will allow trains to run at up to250 Km/h.
- In northern Italy construction is still going on between Milan and Novara, so the high-speed line to Turin is actually in service only between Turin and Novara.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #100
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Good map, but I think Spain lack some lines currently UC, the Galician branch up to Santiago is UC and so is the Barcelona-French border and I also think the basque Y has started. Maybe you should ask in the Spanish infrastructure subforum as they know more in detail.
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