daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 13th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #101
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjkjk View Post
Good work! Anyway, some notes:
France - from LGV Rhin-Rhone is U/C only section Mulhouse to Dijon
- LGV Perpignan-Figueres (France/Spain border) is U/C
Thanks. Ok, so I should take the north/south bit of the Rhin/Rhone route. I wondered why on all the plans I could find the route was a bit vague - I should have realised it's still at the planning stage. I knew the Perpignan - Figueres was u/c and somehow forgot!
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 13th, 2007, 01:59 PM   #102
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
Nice work. Four observations:

- Cologne-Düren has been upgraded for 250 Km/h a few years ago.
- Some parts of the Basel-Karlsruhe mainline are being upgraded for 250 Km/h, but I'm not sure which ones.
- You can add the new Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland since it will allow trains to run at up to250 Km/h.
- In northern Italy construction is still going on between Milan and Novara, so the high-speed line to Turin is actually in service only between Turin and Novara.
I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?

I didn't know about the Gotthard tunnel - thanks I will add it.

Regards the Milan - Turin route if you look closely at the map it is dotted just to the west of Milan - it just hasn't come out very well - I'll try and alter it a bit.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 02:01 PM   #103
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Good map, but I think Spain lack some lines currently UC, the Galician branch up to Santiago is UC and so is the Barcelona-French border and I also think the basque Y has started. Maybe you should ask in the Spanish infrastructure subforum as they know more in detail.
Thanks. The rate of development in Spain is quite dizzying and I did find it difficult to find out what is happening, to know it's even more than I hoped is fantastic. I shall try and get some more info from the spansih forum as you suggest.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 04:03 PM   #104
ChrisH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 351
Likes (Received): 12

Great work mate, keep it up!
ChrisH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #105
Stifler
That's what she said
 
Stifler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bologna
Posts: 1,792
Likes (Received): 11

Great work elfabyanos! It's hard to see maps about HSR, and yours is pretty good. Please keep it as much update as you can!

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Thanks. The rate of development in Spain is quite dizzying and I did find it difficult to find out what is happening, to know it's even more than I hoped is fantastic. I shall try and get some more info from the spansih forum as you suggest.
I'll answer here for Spanish situation:

Under construction lines in your map:
- Madrid - Valladolid -> On service in 2 weeks.
- Antequera - Málaga -> On service in 2 weeks.
- Tarragona - Barcelona -> On service in Feb/Mar/Apr 2008
- Madrid - Valencia -> Planned for 2010

Under construction lines you haven't included:
- Barcelona - French border
Max speed: 350 kph. I think all stretches u/c.
- Antequera - Granada
More than 300kph. Most of it is already u/c.
- Orense - Santiago
Max speed will be 350kph. Around half of it is u/c last time I checked it.
- La Robla (León) - Pola de Lena (Asturias)
Planned for more than 300kph. Everything is already u/c.
- Basque Y (Vitoria-Bilbao-San Sebastian/French Border)
Max. speed will be around 270kph. Most of the stretch between Vitoria and Bilbao is u/c, but the strech to San Sebastian/French border is more delayed.

In 2010 we are expected to have more than 2,000 km of HSR on service.
__________________

Last edited by Stifler; December 13th, 2007 at 08:02 PM.
Stifler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 04:53 PM   #106
Castle_Bravo
Urban experience...
 
Castle_Bravo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Warsaw (PL) / Utrecht (NL)
Posts: 2,279
Likes (Received): 203

Before 2015 the whole CMK line from Warsaw to Katowice/Cracow will be upgrated to 250km/h.
The line was build in the '70 for fast Express trains (not HSR) and freight trains. It's separated of other lines. The rails are new, but the line still need security systems and... rolling stock , becouse now the Max. speed is 160km/h.

There is also a plan to build a HSR from Warsaw to Wrocław/Poznań, but i don't think that they will build it before 2020
__________________
Odgadnij wysokość
Castle_Bravo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 05:02 PM   #107
Nephasto
Enlightened user
 
Nephasto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Porto
Posts: 5,802
Likes (Received): 71

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?

I didn't know about the Gotthard tunnel - thanks I will add it.

Regards the Milan - Turin route if you look closely at the map it is dotted just to the west of Milan - it just hasn't come out very well - I'll try and alter it a bit.

Just use diferent colours for diferentn speeds.
Like one colour for [200-220[, another for [220-250] and other for 270+.

Then you can diferenciate between new lines and upgraded lines... maybe also using colours or diferent tipes of lines (solid for new lines and dashed for upgraded ones... for example).
__________________
Long live rail freight!!
Nephasto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 05:34 PM   #108
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
Just use diferent colours for diferentn speeds.
Like one colour for [200-220[, another for [220-250] and other for 270+.

Then you can diferenciate between new lines and upgraded lines... maybe also using colours or diferent tipes of lines (solid for new lines and dashed for upgraded ones... for example).
Yeah, I'm going to keep to the colour scheme and then use slightly different hues of the same colour for different speeds.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 05:39 PM   #109
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

I've got as far as I can with the upgraded lines - here it is.



I haven't differentiated yet for the different speeds, also I'm not 100% confident about the WCML in the UK and the classic line speeds in France, especially the border line south of Strasbourg. I know it's at least 160kph, clarification would be great.

Thanks for the info Stifler, I will go back and add it to the map.

Castle_Bravo - are the Polish lines currently being upgraded? If they are then I shall add them as a dotted pink line.

Please let me know anything that isn't right.

Edit - I've updated the map

Last edited by elfabyanos; December 13th, 2007 at 06:40 PM.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #110
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,813
Likes (Received): 1776

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?
Sorry, I just realized you intended to include that distinction in your map. It's a good idea, although it might be difficult to distinguish an upgraded line from a new one in cases were new track sections are combined with conventional track sections, as between Karlsruhe (pronounced carls-roo-heh) and Basel. In other cases the trackbed of the conventional line is extended to make place for parallel new high-speed tracks.

Anyway, a few observations:

- Hannover-Würzburg, Lehrte-Berlin and Mannheim-Stuttgart are 250 Km/h high-speed lines.
- Salzburg-Vienna is being upgraded for 200 Km/h, some sections being in service already.
- There's a completely new 200 Km/h line in Switzerland between Mattstetten (near Bern) and Rothrist (near Olten).
- Zaragoza-Huesca is just an upgraded 160 Km/h line.
- Most part of the Paris-Cherbourg line has been upgraded for 200 Km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
Max speed: 350 kph. I think all stretches u/c.
- Antequera - Malaga
Shouldn't that be Antequera-Granada?
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 07:59 PM   #111
Stifler
That's what she said
 
Stifler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bologna
Posts: 1,792
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
Shouldn't that be Antequera-Granada?
Yeah. You are absolutely right.

I will edit it now.
__________________
Stifler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 08:01 PM   #112
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Thanks AR1182 - I'll take out Huesca - Zaragoza. Thanks for the other bits and pieces. I've got the Cherbourg line but on the map I've got it's 160-220 kph so I wasnt confident of putting it in. As you say it's 200kph I'll add it.

Distinguishing new and upgraded is going to be difficult - the approaches to Gare Du Nord are basically completely new but on an old route, bundled with other classic services. I'll just take a broad brush approach to give an overall impression of the European network.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #113
Euklidisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 0

elfabyanos, your map coverage of Sweden is rather poor Anyway:

Stockholm-Gothenburg, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Gothenburg-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Gävle, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Eskilstuna, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Västerås-Örebro, 200 km/h

Nyland-Umeå (northern Sweden) finished 2010, 250 km/h
Gothenburg-Öxnered finished 2012, 250 km/h

All lines is mixed use.

Last edited by Euklidisk; December 13th, 2007 at 11:52 PM.
Euklidisk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 10:58 PM   #114
Euklidisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 83
Likes (Received): 0

Mabye a map is a good help

Green, 180 km/h
Blue, 200 km/h
Red, 250 km/h

image hosted on flickr
Euklidisk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #115
CharlieP
Tax avoider
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 23,762
Likes (Received): 1980

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post


Please let me know anything that isn't right.
Awesome job elfabyanos, but please can you use km/h not kph? It's a little bugbear of mine...
__________________
This signature is socialist and un-American.
CharlieP no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 01:30 AM   #116
jkjkjk
Registered User
 
jkjkjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Please let me know anything that isn't right.
Edit - I've updated the map
Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)
- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C
- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition
Poland
- Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa - app Warsaw - Katowice - 200 km/h capable

Anyway, i will be happy, if you keep not to show proposed lines on the map.
jkjkjk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 02:43 AM   #117
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,813
Likes (Received): 1776

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjkjk View Post
Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)
Leuven-Ans (near Liège) is a new line designed for 300 Km/h, Brussels-Leuven was upgraded for 200 Km/h.

Quote:
- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C
Unfortunately no part of it has been put into service yet.

Quote:
- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition
To be precise: Brussels-Antwerp is being upgraded for 160 Km/h, Antwerp-Dutch border under construction for 300 Km/h, as you wrote.

Last edited by AR1182; December 14th, 2007 at 02:50 AM.
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 12:17 PM   #118
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euklidisk View Post
Mabye a map is a good help

Green, 180 km/h
Blue, 200 km/h
Red, 250 km/h
Thanks very much, I shall expand the map northwards! The map is a great help indeed. Again I'm amazed and pleased at the progress of other countries that I have little knowledge of. I assume the parts listed as '2010' are u/c? How about '2012'? I won't put them on until they're u/c, though I will keep the info and once the map is done I can add in the proposed routes ot it aswell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP View Post
Awesome job elfabyanos, but please can you use km/h not kph? It's a little bugbear of mine...
Certainly - on reflection it is better isn't it!? As it happens all text is up in the air anyway because inkscape has decided not to allow text, and instead crashes when I try to type it so I'm addng it later in Gimp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkjkjk View Post
Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)
- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C
- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition
Poland
- Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa - app Warsaw - Katowice - 200 km/h capable

Anyway, i will be happy, if you keep not to show proposed lines on the map.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AR1182 View Post
Leuven-Ans (near Liège) is a new line designed for 300 Km/h, Brussels-Leuven was upgraded for 200 Km/h.
Unfortunately no part of it has been put into service yet.
To be precise: Brussels-Antwerp is being upgraded for 160 Km/h, Antwerp-Dutch border under construction for 300 Km/h, as you wrote.
Thanks for the info guys. Does anyone have any knowledge of the Dutch and Luxembourg lines?

Eventually I also plan to add in (in a thinner black line) all the routes served by high speed trains from the high speed routes - in an effort to show how wide the coverage actually is from what is really a small amount of HSL in comparison to the whole network. I have the info of all classic routes served by TGV in France, HST in the UK, and ICE in Germany - any other such bits and pieces is greatly appreciated.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 12:24 PM   #119
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler View Post
More than 300kph. Most of it is already u/c.
- Orense - Santiago
Max speed will be 350kph. Around half of it is u/c last time I checked it.
Can you help me locate this line? The only Santiagos that I can find are in South America or on Spanish islands!!!??
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2007, 12:44 PM   #120
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
Thanks for the info guys. Does anyone have any knowledge of the Dutch and Luxembourg lines?
The HSL-Zuid line, as you dotted it, has basically been finished. The only little detail that you got wrong is that the high speed line only runs up to Schiphol Airport; from there on the line will use conventional tracks to Amsterdam Central station, that are 130 km/h at the moment.

The reason the line isn't being used yet is due to problems with the signalling and control system and one tunnel that is being cleaned due to excessive dust. Next to that, the Thalys trains haven't been upgraded to ECTS yet, and the Italian trains that have been ordered for regional high speed trains between Brussels and Amsterdam haven't been delivered yet.

The railway company has decided to start running some sort of service using hired Angel locomotives and existing trains carriages at 160 km/h on the line until at least 2009, when the Italian AnsalaBreda trains should be ready. The Thalys should be able to use the tracks and go 300 km/h in 2008 somewhere.

All in all, it was all badly planned.

The Amsterdam - Utrecht tracks have been quadrupled and the Intercity tracks are capable of handling 200 km/h trains, and should be shown on the map. The Hanzelijn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanzelijn click on "Nederlands" for the Dutch version with a map) is under construction and will be 200 km/h too.

There are vague plans for other tracks to be upgraded, but none of that is actually under construction.

Excellent work, by the way. I love the map. Have you thought about using a higher resolution version so you can show more detail, though? And maybe some city names?

Last edited by sweek; December 14th, 2007 at 12:53 PM.
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium