#PROJECT: THE PALM JUMEIRAH

[Axel_F]

Originally Posted by Richard Head

Actually just found this, have a look at the website, it's very cool. Such a shame this never got built, would have been jaw-dropping.
http://www.trumpdubai.com/

Amazing, the Trump Tower Website is still online! Maybe Donald havent recognized that his construction site is now filled with sand.

I have not in mind, that there was a canal running through the trunk. But its nice to see landscaping starts. Hope the palm branches at the top of the palm get also some trees and greenery.

[mca27]

Originally Posted by siobhan.lund@ntlworl

Had email from Nakheel which says temporary access cards will be in use from 18th Dec til end of month. After that membership for residents will be 5000AED for family of 2 adults and 2 children under 18. Extra children 1000AED. Single adults 2000AED per year. For first year 14 free day passes for family membership guests and 10 for single adult.

Also says will be towel cabanas and heated pools although thought apart from IFA shoreline pool, others didn't have heater?

Membership non residents will be 12000 for family, 2000 for extra child and 5000 for adult. Will have photo ID.

Extra day guest passes 150 AED weekday, 200 weekend adult. 100 weekday child and 150 weekend.

Is this final now? I thought the Owners Associations had taken their dispute to RERA who requested Nakheel to wait for a confirmation from RERA before they could implement this.

Given the strict policy with access cards, what will those owners do who rent out their appartments as holiday homes. Holiday makers will want beach access, but the owners wont be able to change the access cards every few weeks with each new guest ...

[Palm-Host]

Originally Posted by mca27

Is this final now? I thought the Owners Associations had taken their dispute to RERA who requested Nakheel to wait for a confirmation from RERA before they could implement this.

Given the strict policy with access cards, what will those owners do who rent out their appartments as holiday homes. Holiday makers will want beach access, but the owners wont be able to change the access cards every few weeks with each new guest ...

This is not final! The owners association have not agreed on this matter, and in fact there are talks with Rera today regarding this.

Nakheel are doing this to try to collect payment of service charges that have not been paid in the last x amount of years.

The titling is still not finalised as to who owns what? beach, pool, clubhouse etc so they cannot charge until RERA have finalised the titling.

[SA BOY]

it is also illegal to rent out a private home in Dubai for 'short term lets". Its to protect the government owned hotels and serviced apartments.

So holiday lets"short term lest" are covered under the S&P agreement between the owner and Nakheel, Emaar etc, as well as in the body corporate (HOA) rules.

Secondly all leases for properties need to now be registered so there is no way around this and the Authorities will crack down on it. Happened a few years ago in the Lakes when people were leasing out houses for holidays and Emaar, DM and DLD got involved.

[mca27]

Originally Posted by SA BOY

it is also illegal to rent out a private home in Dubai for 'short term lets". Its to protect the government owned hotels and serviced apartments.

So holiday lets"short term lest" are covered under the S&P agreement between the owner and Nakheel, Emaar etc, as well as in the body corporate (HOA) rules.

Secondly all leases for properties need to now be registered so there is no way around this and the Authorities will crack down on it. Happened a few years ago in the Lakes when people were leasing out houses for holidays and Emaar, DM and DLD got involved.

this doesnt affect me, but very interesting to know. I think a number of owners who short term let will be very aggrieved. will maybe put downward pressure on long term rents if owners now switch to longer term lets and so more come on the market ...

Originally Posted by Palm-Host

This is not final! The owners association have not agreed on this matter, and in fact there are talks with Rera today regarding this.

Nakheel are doing this to try to collect payment of service charges that have not been paid in the last x amount of years.

The titling is still not finalised as to who owns what? beach, pool, clubhouse etc so they cannot charge until RERA have finalised the titling.

well it may not be final, but it has to be resolved asap as people wont be allowed on the beach with out the access card - and that only comes with payment !!!

but maybe i am missing something. we already pay approx AED5k for the club house in the service charge. from what i understand, this fee will fall away and be replaced with a more "membership" like fee for the clubhouse - for roughly the same fee. So how do owners actually lose out (other than inconvenience and not being able to take guests)?

[tiny]

I have asked this question a couple of times on the forum so it seems I am correct in saying there seems to be no difference in the membership fees being asked for and the fee we pay in the service charge

The worry is though if nakheel don't get a big up take for the beach clubs that they won't be able to run them

At the moment fees are mandatory

I can only assume that a large proportion haven't paid their annual fees so nakheel have nothing to lose by trying this approach ?

[I Know]

Nakheel on Sunday banned more than 1,300 residents on its flagship Palm Jumeirah project from using the beaches, pools and gyms in the first stage of a controversial plan to charge for the use of facilities.

Security staff received a 22-page document seen by Arabian Business, which held the names of 1,386 owners on the Shoreline development that have not paid their service charges in full.

Owners or tenants living in these properties have now been denied access to any facilities, and were warned they could be arrested if they attempted to enter the pool and gym areas.

Many of the apartments have at least two people staying in them, so the actual number of affected residents is likely to exceed 2,500.

Nakheel declined to comment when approached by Arabian Business.

Amidst angry scenes on the Palm Shoreline on Sunday evening, some residents threatened to call the police, claiming Nakheel had no right to deny them access to the beach facilities.

Other tenants complained that they had “no idea” about outstanding service charges and had rented their properties in good faith. A Facebook campaign, calling on residents to challenge Nakheel over the legality of the move, was also launched last night.

“This is shocking what they are doing, a total disgrace,” one resident told Arabian Business. “Our family, with young children, has literally been booted out of the beach because the landlord hasn’t paid his service charges. I don’t know what to do. This used to be such a nice place to live, now the atmosphere is horrible. Most of us can’t wait until our lease expires to leave.”

Another resident said: “I’m staggered. This is meant to be the Palm Jumeirah, but in truth is the only development in Dubai where you can’t use the pool or gym, unless you don’t mind getting arrested.”

The banning of residents is a precursor to a complex set of charges being introduced by Nakheel from Jan 1, which will see all residents forced to pay up to AED12,000 to use the beach facilities. Access is still understood to be subject to payment of all service fees.

Initially it was believed that families of four would be charged a subsided AED5,000 a year, and individual tenants AED2,000. Nakheel also planned to open up membership to non-tenants at a yearly cost of AED12,000 per family.

However, Nakheel has now given owners first option to take up the subsidised ‘resident’ charges, whether their property is leased or not. This could leave rented tenants facing fees of AED5,000 for single membership and AED12,000 for family membership.

In notices posted at the weekend, Nakheel also said that in apartments with more than one tenant, only the leaseholder would be entitled to the cheaper ‘resident’ charges, with all other tenants required to pay the unsubsidized fees.

All guests will be charged AED200 to enter the beaches during weekends, and families with more than four members will be charged up to AED2,000 for every extra child.

“I’ve never seen such a ridiculous scheme,” said one resident. “If you have a one-week-old child you need to pay AED2,000 extra so you can take the pram on the beach if this is your third child. But the child is too young to even have a passport picture. How can anyone think this is a good idea?”

Other residents spoken to by Arabian Business said they planned to leave the Shoreline development as soon as possible.

“I paid AED200,000 to rent my flat and today my family and I were treated like criminals because we tried to enter the beach area. To be honest, even though I still have four months left on my lease I might just move out straight away out of principle,” one resident said.

Security staff at the Palm told Arabian Business their numbers were likely to be boosted ahead of the weekend, over fears residents may attempt to force their way onto the beach.

Nakheel, developer of Palm Jumeirah, has been locked for weeks in a dispute with homeowners over its plan to privatise Shoreline’s pools, gyms and beach. Owners argue they own the facilities.

Dubai’s Land Department this month asked owners to pay outstanding service charges into an escrow account it had established, and not to Nakheel, as it moves to determine who holds ownership of Shoreline’s common property.

A number of homeowners have told Arabian Business they are withholding their maintenance fees until the dispute is resolved.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakhe...ml?tab=Article

[A.U.S. arch. Student]

sad ... this was not the original idea of the palm ... to drain money from every conceivable point.

[maltster]

Originally Posted by tiny

I have asked this question a couple of times on the forum so it seems I am correct in saying there seems to be no difference in the membership fees being asked for and the fee we pay in the service charge

The worry is though if nakheel don't get a big up take for the beach clubs that they won't be able to run them

At the moment fees are mandatory

I can only assume that a large proportion haven't paid their annual fees so nakheel have nothing to lose by trying this approach ?

thats how I see it as well. If owners haven't paid their services charges like the rest of us then why should they get access to the clubs? I can understand the frustration of tenants who are suffering because their landlords haven't paid up. But the fault lies squarely with the landlords imho.

[wilsonstu]

I am an owner who lives in the Uk but rents out my property.
Apparently if you visit the entrance to Al Hamri building you can see my name on a debtors list for almost 39k Aed. Since day one I have paid my service charges within a week of receiving them yet once again Nakheel so called admin staff seemed to have misplaced my payments. To add insult to injury, apparently my Title Deed does not even relate to my property.
Now my tenant is barred from entering the beach clubs.

[mca27]

Originally Posted by wilsonstu

I am an owner who lives in the Uk but rents out my property.
Apparently if you visit the entrance to Al Hamri building you can see my name on a debtors list for almost 39k Aed. Since day one I have paid my service charges within a week of receiving them yet once again Nakheel so called admin staff seemed to have misplaced my payments. To add insult to injury, apparently my Title Deed does not even relate to my property.
Now my tenant is barred from entering the beach clubs.

not sure if i am on the list you mentioned, but i just contacted nakheel to see if i had any outstanding fees and they sent me details for 24k outstanding. i was sure i had paid this and checked though my accounts etc and i have paid them.

nakheel are just incompetent, inefficient and a complete nightmare to work with. not only are they trying to get fees off non payers, but they are blacklisting those that are up to date just because their systems cannot seem to track payments.

[wilsonstu]

Originally Posted by mca27

not sure if i am on the list you mentioned, but i just contacted nakheel to see if i had any outstanding fees and they sent me details for 24k outstanding. i was sure i had paid this and checked though my accounts etc and i have paid them.

nakheel are just incompetent, inefficient and a complete nightmare to work with. not only are they trying to get fees off non payers, but they are blacklisting those that are up to date just because their systems cannot seem to track payments.

Only saving grace for me is that all payments went through Edwards and Towers who are attempting to sort out this mess. Would hate to have to deal with this situation on my own whilst stuck in the Uk.

[SA BOY]

emaar has it all on line and its actually the easiest and best thing about emaar. they send me an email 7 days before payment due and have never had an issue. however they also stick charges on that are a joke like 2009 "special levies"charged to all 2011 levies mid way through 2011. cant fight it, cant argue and dont have any rights so simply must bend over and take it.
its the price of having been hoodwinked into the Dubai real estate pyramid scheme. Hopefully in 12 years when my house is paid off I can leave with a return on investment

[Opus 2009]

I was upto date with all my payments. But the online system showed an amount due which I could not get clarifications on inspite of emails to Nakheel over the last two months, and various calls to numbers where noone ever seems to answer. The long and short of it is that 2011 service charges were showing as due even though I never received a bill for these.

However to give credit to the guys, they had very little option to do what they did. It is far better to be heavy handed in terms of beach access towards non payers rather than resort to other tactics (such as cutting off cooling or electricity to an apartment). The audited financial statements that I was emailed had almost Dhs 9 M of unpaid service fees. And the service fees aren't at all unreasonable when you compare to other properties around town.

[Richard Head]

Originally Posted by Opus 2009

I was upto date with all my payments. But the online system showed an amount due which I could not get clarifications on inspite of emails to Nakheel over the last two months, and various calls to numbers where noone ever seems to answer. The long and short of it is that 2011 service charges were showing as due even though I never received a bill for these.

However to give credit to the guys, they had very little option to do what they did. It is far better to be heavy handed in terms of beach access towards non payers rather than resort to other tactics (such as cutting off cooling or electricity to an apartment). The audited financial statements that I was emailed had almost Dhs 9 M of unpaid service fees. And the service fees aren't at all unreasonable when you compare to other properties around town.

Not sure where 9m figure came from but it's not even close. The maths is fairly simple. The list in my building has over 100 people on it, 14 of those owe over 100k and the average is probably at least 40k. Multiply that by 15 or 16 buildings that are not privately run and the total oustanding is somewhere around the AED 60 million mark. Probably a conservative estimate. I don't believe Nakheel have paid that out of their own pocket, so the fact they have still managed to have everything maintained to a resonable standard just highlights the blatant overcharging.

[Palm-Host]

Should all this Shoreline service charges discussion not stay in the completed shoreline thread?

On another note! The park is making headway with cement being placed for the running track:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Sani Ramic]

[Salim]

Good to know that park is progressing and hoping we all will be able to view it from our balconies and walk around it without paying any entrance fee.
After all we all are paying or will be paying the upkeep of it in our maintenance charges.

Beach area is backyard of the sea view residents. Am I correct to understand that sea view residents cannot use the exit to their backyard ( beach area) at all OR they can go to the last step of their building but can not touch the path leading to the beach? Is that where the beach starts or after????

Children play area, will that be part of the beach?

Our owner association ought to be encouraged to take positive steps in favor of residents.

[Imre]

24/December/2011

Palm Jumeirah

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[FISHY]

Originally Posted by I Know

Nakheel on Sunday banned more than 1,300 residents on its flagship Palm Jumeirah project from using the beaches, pools and gyms in the first stage of a controversial plan to charge for the use of facilities.

Security staff received a 22-page document seen by Arabian Business, which held the names of 1,386 owners on the Shoreline development that have not paid their service charges in full.

Owners or tenants living in these properties have now been denied access to any facilities, and were warned they could be arrested if they attempted to enter the pool and gym areas.

Many of the apartments have at least two people staying in them, so the actual number of affected residents is likely to exceed 2,500.

Nakheel declined to comment when approached by Arabian Business.

Amidst angry scenes on the Palm Shoreline on Sunday evening, some residents threatened to call the police, claiming Nakheel had no right to deny them access to the beach facilities.

Other tenants complained that they had “no idea” about outstanding service charges and had rented their properties in good faith. A Facebook campaign, calling on residents to challenge Nakheel over the legality of the move, was also launched last night.

“This is shocking what they are doing, a total disgrace,” one resident told Arabian Business. “Our family, with young children, has literally been booted out of the beach because the landlord hasn’t paid his service charges. I don’t know what to do. This used to be such a nice place to live, now the atmosphere is horrible. Most of us can’t wait until our lease expires to leave.”

Another resident said: “I’m staggered. This is meant to be the Palm Jumeirah, but in truth is the only development in Dubai where you can’t use the pool or gym, unless you don’t mind getting arrested.”

The banning of residents is a precursor to a complex set of charges being introduced by Nakheel from Jan 1, which will see all residents forced to pay up to AED12,000 to use the beach facilities. Access is still understood to be subject to payment of all service fees.

Initially it was believed that families of four would be charged a subsided AED5,000 a year, and individual tenants AED2,000. Nakheel also planned to open up membership to non-tenants at a yearly cost of AED12,000 per family.

However, Nakheel has now given owners first option to take up the subsidised ‘resident’ charges, whether their property is leased or not. This could leave rented tenants facing fees of AED5,000 for single membership and AED12,000 for family membership.

In notices posted at the weekend, Nakheel also said that in apartments with more than one tenant, only the leaseholder would be entitled to the cheaper ‘resident’ charges, with all other tenants required to pay the unsubsidized fees.

All guests will be charged AED200 to enter the beaches during weekends, and families with more than four members will be charged up to AED2,000 for every extra child.

“I’ve never seen such a ridiculous scheme,” said one resident. “If you have a one-week-old child you need to pay AED2,000 extra so you can take the pram on the beach if this is your third child. But the child is too young to even have a passport picture. How can anyone think this is a good idea?”

Other residents spoken to by Arabian Business said they planned to leave the Shoreline development as soon as possible.

“I paid AED200,000 to rent my flat and today my family and I were treated like criminals because we tried to enter the beach area. To be honest, even though I still have four months left on my lease I might just move out straight away out of principle,” one resident said.

Security staff at the Palm told Arabian Business their numbers were likely to be boosted ahead of the weekend, over fears residents may attempt to force their way onto the beach.

Nakheel, developer of Palm Jumeirah, has been locked for weeks in a dispute with homeowners over its plan to privatise Shoreline’s pools, gyms and beach. Owners argue they own the facilities.

Dubai’s Land Department this month asked owners to pay outstanding service charges into an escrow account it had established, and not to Nakheel, as it moves to determine who holds ownership of Shoreline’s common property.

A number of homeowners have told Arabian Business they are withholding their maintenance fees until the dispute is resolved.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/nakhe...ml?tab=Article

I agree with Nakheel to certain extent that every owner must pay the service charges/Club fees on time to make the palm what is meant to be ,but so many owners are not paying and on top of this they are letting their apts (short and long let),as a result of this we are not having the desired standards that we all want.The owners who are making the noise now are probably the ones who have been abusing all the rules and not paying these fees for years.COME ON pay up and let us all having what we bought for and be fair on others who have paid all these years and you have been enjoying with your tenants all the facilities with paying. Let us hope Nakheel on its part be transparent on their fees and manage to lower it for everybody after all owners pay.
We all want exclusive and beautiful palm and this cannot come for free!

This is long overdue.