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Old May 6th, 2009, 06:20 PM   #81
Verso
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Guys, do you think frontage roads count here? F.e. northern Ljubljana bypass is full of them, but I never considered it an 8-lane road.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #82
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No, because they're not part of the motorway structure, except when it's a full access controlled collector-distributor setup.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #83
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No, because they're not part of the motorway structure
They are roads though, and were built at the same time; they wouldn't build them, if they didn't build the bypass. I mean, some people here showed us ordinary city streets, not motorways. Again, I never considered it an 8-lane road myself (mostly it's actually 10-laned with all the interchanges), but why not? Why do they both have to be expressways to be considered one (split) road? I guess it's about perception.
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Old May 6th, 2009, 11:58 PM   #84
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an average car recquires about 10m2 for parking...
for 1 million car its 10km2...
there are about 1 million car in budapest, and budapest is about 630km2...

if you cant find 10km2 for cars, you make something wrong...
10m2 at home, 10m2 at work, now and then 10m2 at the grocery store etc. Its a lot more than 10m2 per car that is just wasted.

Sure, you can create parkingspaces and parking garages everywhere, thats what they did especially in the US in the 1950s and 60s. Its not an economically sound idea though since its a huge waste of valuable land.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #85
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10m2 at home, 10m2 at work, now and then 10m2 at the grocery store etc. Its a lot more than 10m2 per car that is just wasted.

Sure, you can create parkingspaces and parking garages everywhere, thats what they did especially in the US in the 1950s and 60s. Its not an economically sound idea though since its a huge waste of valuable land.
Title: 2×5+ highways!
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Old May 7th, 2009, 02:10 AM   #86
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Hideous
Nah... beautiful!
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Old May 7th, 2009, 08:31 AM   #87
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Quote:
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Title: 2×5+ highways!
this parking issue is NOT OT: if there are NOT enough parking space, you do NOT need 2x5+ highways...
(unless you want to use them as a giganto parking lot... )


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10m2 at home, 10m2 at work, now and then 10m2 at the grocery store etc. Its a lot more than 10m2 per car that is just wasted.
ok, you are right.
10km2 is not enough, we need 30-40km2... out of 630km2...

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Sure, you can create parkingspaces and parking garages everywhere, thats what they did especially in the US in the 1950s and 60s. Its not an economically sound idea though since its a huge waste of valuable land.
"waste of valuable land"???

what do you want to do with that land? build commieblocks on them?

urban sprawl means higher living standard, and means higher car usage...
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Old May 7th, 2009, 09:49 AM   #88
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Being very auto dependent is not something to be proud of.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 10:25 AM   #89
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Being very auto dependent is not something to be proud of.
What is the big deal? Mobility is an essential part of our daily live, and the car is the most efficient way to do that in 90% of the cases. It makes you able to work and live wherever you like, instead of being stuck in that bad neighborhood or that dead-end job.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 05:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
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this parking issue is NOT OT: if there are NOT enough parking space, you do NOT need 2x5+ highways...
I doubt the thread starter wanted to talk about parkings in this thread, so let's go back to 10-lane highways.

I don't know of any compact 10-lane highway in Italy (except maybe city streets and with merging lanes), but there are a few with C/D roads, e.g. Udine (2+3+3+2 lanes), Padova (if the northern bypass counts), Vicenza, Verona, Brescia, Bologna (!), Modena even has 2+4+4+2 lanes. Ok, they aren't 2×5 (compact), but I think they are worth mentioning. Any other such?
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Old May 7th, 2009, 06:16 PM   #91
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What is the big deal? Mobility is an essential part of our daily live, and the car is the most efficient way to do that in 90% of the cases. It makes you able to work and live wherever you like, instead of being stuck in that bad neighborhood or that dead-end job.
What about being forced to drive like so many Americans here? If you drove here, you might be doubtful.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 06:27 PM   #92
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What about being forced to drive like so many Americans here? If you drove here, you might be doubtful.
That is only a very small portion who really don't want to, or can't drive, and that's why you need basic public transportation.
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Old May 7th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #93
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Unless you live in a area with a lot of bad drivers like the state(Maryland) I live in, and has very limited transit.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:37 PM   #94
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"waste of valuable land"???

what do you want to do with that land? build commieblocks on them?

urban sprawl means higher living standard, and means higher car usage...
No since commie blocks are another hateful thing that came out of modernistic city planning. I want to build city blocks, nice urban streets and where the traffic is a bit more dense I want avenues. In a city like that you wont have to drive everywhere, you just walk there.

Urban sprawl is not equal to higher living standards. Urban sprawl equals lonelyness, traffic jams, pollution, higher living costs.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 01:38 PM   #95
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Being very auto dependent is not something to be proud of.

Thank you!
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Old May 8th, 2009, 03:37 PM   #96
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Urban sprawl is not equal to higher living standards. Urban sprawl equals lonelyness, traffic jams, pollution, higher living costs.
Then why is a nice suburban home, with a nice yard, good schools, low crime, low traffic etc considered better by many?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #97
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You can have that in a good urban neighborhood too, but too bad its more expensive.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #98
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American cities just don't seem to be able to gentrify or rehabilitate their central (older) neighborhoods. Can you blame people for escaping them? Detroit might be the most prominent example, plus areas like Harlem and Bronx in New York City from the 1960's - 1990's.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:10 PM   #99
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American cities had problems at the time. Plus our own goverment encouraged the suburban exodus in the 50s and 60s.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 06:25 PM   #100
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Helped by standard oil's buy up of streetcar lines and subsequently closing them.
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