Manchester second city according to...

[jrb]

when really what they perhaps should be resenting is the apathy and incompetence of their own elected representatives in their city halls.

Enough said.

Sir Howard Bernstein. (my hero)

[Pobbie]

For what it's worth (probably fuck all, but hey) I've got nothing against Manchester and I've certainly liked it every time I've been, but I don't think it's worth all the hype surrounding it. The problem is, you have it shoved down your throat how great Manchester is and if you disagree with it then you're automatically jealous and bitter (or racist in TheFly's eyes - Godwin's Law taken to a whole new and ridiculous level). Sure, Mancunians have every right to resent petty digs at their city but if I don't think it's the "new Barcelona" or whatever (I think Barcelona's overrated too) then tough shit. Promoting yourself is one thing, masturbating over yourself is another.

BTW, I think London's overrated too. Heck, so is Liverpool to an extent. Too much hype makes me wary.

[TheFly]

Originally Posted by Pobbie Rarr

For what it's worth (probably fuck all, but hey) I've got nothing against Manchester and I've certainly liked it every time I've been, but I don't think it's worth all the hype surrounding it. The problem is, you have it shoved down your throat how great Manchester is and if you disagree with it then you're automatically jealous and bitter (or racist in TheFly's eyes - Godwin's Law taken to a whole new and ridiculous level). Sure, Mancunians have every right to resent petty digs at their city but if I don't think it's the "new Barcelona" or whatever (I think Barcelona's overrated too) then tough shit. Promoting yourself is one thing, masturbating over yourself is another.

BTW, I think London's overrated too. Heck, so is Liverpool to an extent. Too much hype makes me wary.

Yeah, not racist...sorry just cud not believe some twerp called someone a puff TWICE and no one said jack shit..... these same currently stum people are quick to make ridiculous claims AGAINST Manchester, which are proven to be fabricated.

great people on here. Typical representation of the UK however, turning a blind eye to obvious wrong doing while safely attacking an `easier' target...the last two days have been about combatting these twerps who seem to have their priorities all wrong.

For these people could I recommend that BBC programme coming up suggesting the USA attacked itself on 9/11? Same mentality....FFS even when Al Queda admits it they look for a conspricacy!!

Welcome to Manchester home of the UK Government, briber and corruptor of every colour of policitician for the last 15 years, home of the boastful.

[TheFly]

Originally Posted by victor ebuwa

Course they do you little fag, I'm sure you always tune into the American news for the latest from CNN's Manchester Airport correspondent. Dickhead.

American perception places Manchester United squarely in London. Why would they have heard of Manchester?

America has the most insular news of almost any country, what has happened in Manchester that would have made the headlines in America?

You wanna get a grip sonny.

Remember chaps keep slagging Manchester, let's not bother with this twat?

Well done.

Pride in your home city?
Pride in your forum?
You get what you deserve?

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by TheFly

Remember chaps keep slagging Manchester, let's not bother with this twat?

Well done.

Pride in your home city?
Pride in your forum?
You get what you deserve?

Welcome to our world Fly, Londons always being slagged off even in this thread where its not even about the topic(some1 just called it overated), and i hate to point out that some of the worst culprits are Mancs (not pointing the finger at you however). But in a way i can see why some ppl are feeling the 'how Manchester is always getting everything' attitude cos organisations such as the BBC are forced to relocate there, and the supercasino which really should've gone to Blackpool but u can hardly blame mancs for that, more so the govt in my opnion.

[Pobbie]

"overrated" does not necessarily mean "shite". This is exactly what I'm talking about. Is it really such a heinous crime if I don't rate something as highly as others do?

[jrb]

cos organisations such as the BBC are forced to relocate there

Wrong.

It wasn't forced out.

The BBC decided to move out of London for financial reasons and eventually chose Manchester after a nationwide assessment involving six cities.

BTW. Gtr Manchester also won the IWMN and CJC Law Courts after stiff 'competition' from other cities. It's also lost it's fair share of competitions and hasn't entered others.

[Awayo]

Wrong jrb. Mark Thompson has stated clearly that the out of London project is a political decision - his predecessor, Greg Dyke, is reported to have wanted to cancel the proposed move on account of its expense.

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by jrb

Wrong.

It wasn't forced out.

The BBC decided to move out of London for financial reasons and eventually chose Manchester after a nationwide assessment involving six cities.

BTW. Gtr Manchester also won the IWMN and CJC Law Courts after stiff 'competition' from other cities. It's also lost it's fair share of competitions and hasn't entered others.

No, the BBC didnt want to relocate. its gonna cost them a lot of money.

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by Pobbie Rarr

"overrated" does not necessarily mean "shite". This is exactly what I'm talking about. Is it really such a heinous crime if I don't rate something as highly as others do?

i actually was looking for something more appropriate to quote but i couldnt quickly enough, but what i mean is that ppl would slam (i use that word loosely) London every once in a while for no reason particularly even when the topic is about something else. i was just using the example of London in relation to Manchester thats all.

everyone is entitled to their opinion however.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd

No, the BBC didnt want to relocate. its gonna cost them a lot of money.

It will cost them even more dearly in terms of talent.

[victor ebuwa]

Manchester doesn't even have a journalism school.

The BBC didn't want to go there, but the government, (Dept. for Culture, Media and Sport) bribed them to (no move to Manchester, no licence fee increase)

And if they "assessed" other cities, they ought to have consulted media executives in those cities and allowed the respective councils to submit a bid, they didn't.

So much shite spouted on here

[garethwyn]

Originally Posted by Monkey

It will cost them even more dearly in terms of talent.

Is there no broadcasting talent in Manchester, then, the city that was home to Granada when Granada was a beacon of creativity, and has produced or fostered such talent as Sidney Bernstein, Jack Rosenthal, Russell T Davies, Paul Abbott, Tony Warren, Nicola Schindler etc etc etc? I've been off work this week and have had the misfortune to see some of the BBC's woeful daytime output. It is an insult to the intelligence. If it's what the public-school-educated twerps populating White City consider good broadcasting then I sincerely hope some of that 'talent' stays down South

[kids]

I think Monkey's just teasing...

And, 2nd city? who gives a shit. The bbc are twats for bringing it up again.

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by garethwyn

Is there no broadcasting talent in Manchester, then, the city that was home to Granada when Granada was a beacon of creativity, and has produced or fostered such talent as Sidney Bernstein, Jack Rosenthal, Russell T Davies, Paul Abbott, Tony Warren, Nicola Schindler etc etc etc? I've been off work this week and have had the misfortune to see some of the BBC's woeful daytime output. It is an insult to the intelligence. If it's what the public-school-educated twerps populating White City consider good broadcasting then I sincerely hope some of that 'talent' stays down South

calm down dude, he did wink

[jrb]

Your all wrong.

The BBC 'will' eventually save money. Yes, the initial move will cost money, however, in the long-term the BBC will recoup that money and save even more. The move wouldn't have happened if savings couldn't have been made.

As for the Government forcing the BBC to move to 'Salford', that's open to debate. Let's just say the Government probably had a very quite word with the BBC when it came to making the final decision to move North.

One question. Would all this moaning about the move North have happened if the BBC had chosen another Northern city instead of 'Salford'? The answer. No.

Monkey shut up. Your boring me now.

[garethwyn]

Originally Posted by Its AlL gUUd

calm down dude, he did wink

Apologies. I've allowed myself to get badly riled by the likes of that Victor Ebuwa and have been suffering a sense of humour failure. Sorry!

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by garethwyn

Is there no broadcasting talent in Manchester, then, the city that was home to Granada when Granada was a beacon of creativity, and has produced or fostered such talent as Sidney Bernstein, Jack Rosenthal, Russell T Davies, Paul Abbott, Tony Warren, Nicola Schindler etc etc etc?

Who are they?

[jrb]

Perhaps this statement from Caroline Thomson, Chief Operating Officer, BBC, will clear a few misconceptions up? Then again.

Delivered before the final decision to move North was agreed.

The strategic importance of Salford



As you all know, Salford is hugely significant because of the media city that's planned to take shape just across the water from where we are today. We hope to base several strategically important BBC services right here – and they are Children's, Sport, Future Media, Five Live and Research and Development. That will establish the UK's largest production centre outside London in 4 years time.



Clearly there are compelling reasons to build here. Not least Greater Manchester's terrific broadcasting heritage, dating right back to the first radio transmissions from Trafford Park in the 1920s. You only have to walk around these streets to be reminded of all the hugely successful network programmes made by Granada as well as BBC Manchester. And of course there are all the high quality services on local radio and television.



Naturally everyone wants to know whether our Salford plans are definitely going ahead. So let me say a few words about where they stand at the moment. The final decision is up to the BBC Trust, who've now taken over from the Board of Governors as the body charged with representing the public interest in the BBC. They must take account of the Licence Fee settlement, which the Government is due to confirm any day now.



Backing of the BBC Governors



Obviously I don't know what the Trust's decision is going to be but the advice they received from the outgoing Board of Governors was very positive. At the final meeting of the Governors last month, they recommended in principle the move to establish a major production base in the North of England. Anthony Salz, Michael Grade's replacement as Acting Chairman, put it this way: "The BBC has been too London centric for too long".



The Governors had made their support conditional on obtaining satisfactory answers to two key issues for licence fee payers – value for money and affordability. Having weighed up the potential costs and savings, and with independent advice from the business advisory firm Deloitte, they concluded in December that the Salford move would represent value for money for all licence fee payers, subject to agreeing outstanding contractual issues with the developer.



It's important to remember the move to Salford was the BBC's idea, stemming from the Building Public Value vision of a BBC which was more diverse, less London-centric, better represented the country and clearly embraced its role as a creative catalyst in the nation's economy. It is not something we have to be forced into. It's something we want to do because we think it's the right thing to do to serve audiences better. But just like any business, the harsh reality is we need to know how we can finance it.



For us, a future without Salford is now almost unthinkable. For the BBC it represents a hugely symbolic and significant shift of emphasis from the capital to the regions. We are grateful for the tremendous backing we've received from local organisations like Salford City Council and the North West Regional Development Agency.



We hope the media city will not just be about television or even digital but that it will embrace many different kinds of creative talent, including traditional ones. The live performance and broadcasting of classical music, for example, traces its regional roots right back to the early days of radio in the 1920s and '30s. Our plans include a new home for the BBC Philharmonic, which is such an important part of the cultural life of the region today.



Assembling so much talent together on one site should bring about a renaissance of the creative industries that is both wide ranging and deep rooted.



Jobs and the economy



But the significance of developments like Salford is about more than giving the regions better national representation, more than fulfilling their creative potential, more even than giving opportunities to their best talent. It is also about creating jobs. It's about being a catalyst for renewal.



Many experts believe the creative industries are one of the keys to the future prosperity of the whole UK economy. Gordon Brown has identified them as one of the fastest growing and highest value-added sectors where, with the right long-term decisions, Britain can lead the world.



The statistics speak for themselves. Between 1997 and 2004 the creative industries grew twice as fast as the economy as a whole, averaging 6%. They account for more of the value added in the UK economy than even the financial services sector. The employment they provide has risen from 1.5 million to 1.8 million people, growing three times as fast as the economy as a whole. In London alone they already generate over £21 billion each year and employ over half a million people.



That's great for London. What we want to encourage now is the opportunity for other parts of the UK become just as successful.



Generating jobs in the North



The figures for Salford show how big the impact could be on employment and the economy in the North of England. According to research by AMION Consulting, the BBC's move will create an additional 15,000 jobs in the region and boost the economy by £200 million (Gross Value Added) a year.



As the centrepiece of the new media city, we hope the BBC complex will act as a magnet for new media and creative industries. Salford City Council estimate the media city would deliver an eventual total of £1.5 billion to the regional economy. Salford has the chance to secure a national, and indeed a global, presence in this vital sector of the economy, providing opportunities not just for the next few years but for the long term, looking 10 or 20 years ahead. Building in such a future-proof way is possible because many of the services the BBC proposes to locate here are at the forefront of new media, interactive and online developments.



Take Children's, for example. It already has a pioneering role for an audience that increasingly expects content on demand. For many children, the idea of being restricted to a traditional TV schedule already seems as old fashioned as watching black-and-white films. By last summer about 45% of children in the UK had access to broadband. Four million a month were using the CBBC website compared with 1.4 million watching the digital TV channel.



The digital transformation



Across our full range of output, the BBC is in the process of transforming itself for an on-demand digital world in which viewers will be able to watch programmes on mobile phones and portable players as easily as the TV at home. We've recently changed the way we commission content for this multi-platform world by setting up BBC Vision, whose commissioners now assess the creative potential of ideas across all platforms right from the outset. It's all about giving audiences a richer experience. And that means looking for content that won't just be great on linear TV channels but on the web, on mobiles or via the red button, and that works for on-demand or games or any other applications people can dream up.



In the future, we expect many of the most significant innovations, the ones that will really take everyone by surprise, to come from the new media community. And it's in the spirit of this community that it can be based just as easily here in Salford, or in the Midlands, in Cornwall, in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland as it can in London and the South East. They can help us to commission and deliver content in a host of imaginative new ways to ensure it's not just compelling but accessible to all digital audiences.



Opportunities for smaller companies



Many of the services that are lined up for the Salford move already rely extensively on the independent sector. For instance 25% of our New Media spending is with indies. Going forward, we are going to need people and companies with the skills and creative vision to generate ideas and make them a reality. This will create fresh opportunities for younger, smaller, more flexible companies.



One of the reasons why it's easier for them to break into the market or ramp up their activities is because new media content costs substantially less to make than broadcast programming. That means it's less risky in terms of the size of capital outlay required. And the growth of new media is expanding total media consumption, boosting the opportunities for production by small firms.



This is one of the things which makes us determined to ensure that the Salford investment benefits the north as a whole – not just Manchester. We're not naive about this. As someone who lives part of her life in Cumbria and was educated in York, I think I understand better than most that "the North" is not always a completely harmonious and homogenous concept! We also have to be realistic about what one media investor, however big, can achieve unless there is infrastructure and other investment in support. For example, geography alone means it can take longer by train to get from Manchester to Newcastle than from Manchester to London. But we've been thinking hard about how to make a start. For example we're already working with colleges and universities throughout the North of England to let them know about the significant entry level employment opportunities that Salford is expected to generate. The next generation of creative leaders could well be studying digital media at universities like Sunderland and Middlesbrough.



Casting the net wider



But we want to cast the net even wider, to identify and encourage the most able people, whatever their starting point may be. That means looking for people who traditionally may not have come into the industry, whether it's for reasons of ethnic or social background, disability or academic qualifications.



Under the umbrella of Project North, we're establishing an Education & Communities Partnership covering the whole of the North of England. We aim to work not just with every university in the region but with a number of further education colleges, community and training organisations.



As well as traditional placements, the sort of initiatives we have already been trying and which we would hope to continue and develop have included teaming up with the University of Central Lancashire, based in Preston, to encourage greater Asian representation on journalism courses; and having senior editorial staff support curriculum development at Bolton and Edge Hill Universities.



The catalyst theory is already starting to work. The media city and the BBC between them are proving to be an inspiration for other innovative media initiatives. Take Salford University's decision to move its entire arts, media and social sciences department to the media city site if the project goes ahead. Or the planned £25 million project to build a flagship academy school at the Quays to specialise in media, enterprise and business. And the North West's two leading audiovisual organisations – North West Vision and Media Training North West – are to merge with the explicit idea of maximising the opportunities of the BBC's move North.



That's just a sample of what's happening. The prospects for all kinds of young people are tremendously exciting, and I hope thousands of them will want to get involved. But we know we can still do more. And I would be very interested to hear your ideas about how we could achieve that.



I hope we'll all know the final decision on Salford very soon and if, as we all hope, the outcome is positive, I hope you will join in celebrating the most significant production shift the BBC has ever seen and one of the most important regional media developments of recent years.



Summing Up



To sum up, I believe that 2007 could turn out to be a landmark year for the nations and regions, one in which they increasingly take their place in the brave new digital world. Through digital, there's more scope for the kind of creative thinking and innovation that all of the UK is so good at. The BBC will play a full part, and I hope that every media organisation represented here will do so too. With our support and encouragement, let's hope that the global media players of the future could be – literally – just around the corner.

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by Monkey

Who are they?

LOL Monkey, i dont think he is gonna fall for that