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Old January 23rd, 2011, 12:13 PM   #3021
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Verso is right. Portorož airport is completely in Slovenia and doesn't have anything with controversial area.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 01:33 PM   #3022
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The Slovenians claim that the border is the edge of the floodplain and the Croatians claim that the border is the natural flow of the river. The airport is SOUTH of the NATURAL flow but north of the canal! Slovenia claim that the canal is the main part of the river and that the disputed zone is south of that, Croatian claim is that the old, natural course of the river is the edge of the disputed zone. So...The extent of the disputed zone is disputed (oh the irony!).
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 01:45 PM   #3023
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ANYWAY, let's get back to something more productive! For example, what's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 03:40 PM   #3024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
The Slovenians claim that the border is the edge of the floodplain and the Croatians claim that the border is the natural flow of the river. The airport is SOUTH of the NATURAL flow but north of the canal! Slovenia claim that the canal is the main part of the river and that the disputed zone is south of that, Croatian claim is that the old, natural course of the river is the edge of the disputed zone. So...The extent of the disputed zone is disputed (oh the irony!).
wrong. this is old Dragonja's stream. new Dragonja's stream, or popular channel of St. Odorik is the border which Croatian side accepts. that was the border in 1991. the border on old Dragonja's stream was till 1940es, or till the famous flood, when channel of St. Odorik was built, and new border was established. only the hardest nationalists claim that the border is real Dragonja.
the problem has appeared when Slovenian side started to claim its juristiction even over St. Odorik channel, those 4 villages (Mlini, Škudelini and i don't know the names of other 2).

about ZG bypass - there is nothing visible of that project yet, thanks god. it is absolutely unneccessary.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 04:01 PM   #3025
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I don't understand you. Croatia says that the canal of st Odoric was the border and Slovenia says the border was a few hundred metres to the south. So the disputed area is between them. The old flow of the river that goes by the airport (it's called Stara Dragonja) is not part of the dispute. What you're saying would be like Slovenia (officially, not some radical movements) saying that Savudrija and Kaštel are disputed too because they used to be part of Piran.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 06:50 PM   #3026
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No, the whole point is that Croatia is arguing that the old flow of the Dragonja is the border, and not the canal. Croatia claims that canal does not affect the border but SLovenia claims that canal is the new border. The disputed zone is between the two. LOOK IT UP!

[URL="http://giam.zrc-sazu.si/sites/default/files/ags48205.pdf"]

Try and argue with that! Let's see your essay!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!

Like I said:

What's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?

(BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:53 PM   #3027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
No, the whole point is that Croatia is arguing that the old flow of the Dragonja is the border, and not the canal. Croatia claims that canal does not affect the border but SLovenia claims that canal is the new border. The disputed zone is between the two. LOOK IT UP!

[URL="http://giam.zrc-sazu.si/sites/default/files/ags48205.pdf"]

Try and argue with that! Let's see your essay!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!

Like I said:

What's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?

(BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)
well on that .pdf is written what i have said: disputed area is south from St. Odorik channel. here is the map. green area lasted up to 1940es when there was no that channel. Croatia accepts situation from 1991, which is drawn. i don't know what is unclear to you.

and i told you about ZG wide bypass - no any new things about it, only idea exists. and i repeat - i hope they will first rebuild existing bypass, add 3rd lane and see the situation with that. if Zagreb keeps growing as till now, new bypass will be neccessarry indeed. in some 10-15 years, not sooner.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 09:08 PM   #3028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
ANYWAY, let's get back to something more productive!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!
Maybe you should finally move on yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
(BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)
Maybe you should kill yourself next time you bring it up.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:45 PM   #3029
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Oh dear god! let's just agree to disagree!
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Old January 26th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #3030
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Plan for the openings of new Motorways in Croatia in 2011. is

-jun - 50 km Kanfanar - Umag (close to SLO border)
-jun - 10 km Ravča - Vrgorac
-end of the year - 18 km Kanfanar - Pazin

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Old January 26th, 2011, 09:15 PM   #3031
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I'll Just be glad to see the A1 finished to the Ploce exit. This summer, it took us 45 minutes to drive 25 kilometers between Ravca and Ploce! My beachhouse is in the village under the peljesac bridge construction site and so it will be hugely convenient as there will be an exit 900 metres away...the construction is moving at a snails pace!
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Old January 27th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #3032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitophobe View Post
I'll Just be glad to see the A1 finished to the Ploce exit. This summer, it took us 45 minutes to drive 25 kilometers between Ravca and Ploce! My beachhouse is in the village under the peljesac bridge construction site and so it will be hugely convenient as there will be an exit 900 metres away...the construction is moving at a snails pace!
Problem is that they won't open the Ploce exit (near Mali Prolog) but the Vrgorac one so it'll remain 15 km of the worst part (expecially between Mali Prolog and Kobiljaca). It wont take 45 minuts but not less than 25...
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Old January 27th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #3033
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I'm wondering what the paths of E65 and E71 are in Croatia. Different maps give different routings. Usually E routes follow motorways if they are available (e.g., A1), but the city-to-city definition of the routes suggests that national roads (D8, D1, D217, etc.) are used.

So if you follow signs for E65 from Hungary to Montenegro and E71 from Hungary to Split, what is the series of Croatian roads you follow?

Also, does E71 intersect E761 somewhere in Croatia, in Bosnia near Bihac, or not at all?

And finally, will the completion of A1 in Croatia change the routing of either E65 or E71?

Thanks for any info on these routings.
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Old January 27th, 2011, 09:35 PM   #3034
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when A1 was not built after Karlovac, the situation was like this: E65 and E71 went joined from b/c Goričan to Karlovac following D3 road (which went joined with D1 between Zagreb and Karlovac).
E65 continued to follo D3 up to Rijeka, and there turned on D8 to the south, all way down to b/c Karasovići (with MNE). of course, with little deviation into BIH around Neum.
E71 continued to follow D1 in Karlovac up to Grabovac. there it continued on D217 to b/c Ličko Petrovo Selo (BIH), passed Bihać and entered HR again, but i'm not sure where. i think in Užljebić on D218. it follows D218 and i don't know where it reaches D1 again. first option is in Sučević. second option is that it turns on D506 and gets back to D1 in Bruvno. however, it follows D1 further up to Split, where it ends.

when A1 and A6 motorways appeared, total mess appeared with it. along A1 there are both signs for E65 and E71 (but not together, interesting). also, along A6 there are E65 signs. so nobody knows it anymore
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Old January 27th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #3035
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Do you know of any photo galleries showing A1, A6, D1, D8, etc. that might show where which E road is signed on the motorways? Or might the Croatian road authorities publish a route log or official maps that might spell out the E routes? (Unfortunately, Google Street View doesn't cover Croatia yet.)
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Old January 28th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #3036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
Do you know of any photo galleries showing A1, A6, D1, D8, etc. that might show where which E road is signed on the motorways? Or might the Croatian road authorities publish a route log or official maps that might spell out the E routes? (Unfortunately, Google Street View doesn't cover Croatia yet.)
here are some of my photos from A1 with E numbers.

E71 at Perušić


this is confirmation sign after exit Perušić. here are both E65 and 71 dsigned.


Gospić: E71


and confirmation - both


Gornja Ploča: E71. it seems that all along the A1 from Bosiljevo to Maslenica is E71 signed.


Sveti Rok: nothing. this is the oldest part of A1 south of Bosiljevo.


but confirmation table says both after exit Sveti Rok


exit Maslenica says E65




Posedarje also says E65


so does Zadar I


and Benkovac. this is newr part than previous one, but is still says E65.


Pirovac E65


Skradin E65


Šibenik E65



i will look through other phots if i find something interesting.
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Old January 28th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #3037
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this one is interesting: intersection of A6 and A7 in Rijeka. it says E65 for both A6 direction Zagreb and A7 direction south (continuing on D8)

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Old January 28th, 2011, 08:48 PM   #3038
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I didn't see any document or plan. All I know is that Umag exit is on 4,6 km of A9. Probably there would be another curve just north of Kaštel, where the road will be brought down to a border crossing
Between valley and new roundabout (current beginning of A9) there is about 75 m of altitude difference. With 1,5 km long expressway, one short tunnel or big cutting there is no need to reach border control on Croatian side, connection could be done exactly on the bottom. It would be still steep (about 5%), but that is acceptable. If Slovenians would build some sort of approach viaduct on H5 just behind current border control, slope would be even more gentle. Of course existing border controls will have to be removed.
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Old January 28th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #3039
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The route of E65 follows the path of A1 until Bosiljevo, then it carrries onto A6 till Rijeka. It then goes south on A7, continues on the D8 (Adriatic Highway) until Senj, where it goes inland and rejoins the A1 at Zuta Lovka, thus following the future route of the A7. From there onwards it goes straight down the A1 and then goes on country roads for 20km or so until it rejoins D8.

Complicated route...most people will take the shortcut between Bosiljevo and Zuta Lovka, the only reason it goes via Rijeka is because...

a) It is the fastest route between Budapest and sea.
b) The E-Road Network funding applies to more motorway.
c) It serves a more usefull purpose as a coastal road.
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Old January 28th, 2011, 11:31 PM   #3040
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Quote:
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The route of E65 follows the path of A1 until Bosiljevo, then it carrries onto A6 till Rijeka. It then goes south on A7, continues on the D8 (Adriatic Highway) until Senj, where it goes inland and rejoins the A1 at Zuta Lovka, thus following the future route of the A7. From there onwards it goes straight down the A1 and then goes on country roads for 20km or so until it rejoins D8.
do you have any relevant sources of that? why isn't E65 signed between Žuta Lokva and Maslenica (and E71 is)?
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