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Old July 10th, 2011, 02:48 AM   #3381
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think the toll stations are the major bottlenecks. It looks like this one has only some 6 toll gates westbound, in France toll stations on major holiday routes often have 12 or even 20 toll gates in the peak direction.
Lučko can have max 12 entries. 7 are default regarding the solid line, but it doesn't mean anything because all booths are changable. i have noticed in Italy many unchangable toll booths. so where is solid line, there is always border between directions.

btw i have bought electronic tolling device today
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Old July 10th, 2011, 03:30 AM   #3382
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migration of nations I don't get it why everybody wants to travel on saturday.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 09:59 AM   #3383
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migration of nations I don't get it why everybody wants to travel on saturday.
There is no way you can book accommodations other than Saturday - Saturday during the peak summer season...
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Old July 10th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #3384
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The newspapers stated that yesterday even the Vrgorac toll station was jammed at the exit. The queue was 2-3 kms long. I hope that A1 will be connected with Ploče expw before the next summer season.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 10:33 AM   #3385
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About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.

I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.

Last edited by darko06; July 10th, 2011 at 10:38 AM.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #3386
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About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.

I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.
i think you can use it in the same way as ENC device from HAC. you must own a credit card and come to selling point of Bina Istra (for instance at tunnel Učka) and then they decode your device. however, they probably charge directly your credit card, and they don't take down your credits prepayed on ENC.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #3387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.
Considering the reactions on implementation of Slovenian vignettes few years back, I thought you hated vignettes. Just kidding, I know ... 15 € for 7 days. But implementation of vignettes caused a zero-waiting-line-on-toll-booths in Slovenia.

But is it possible with all the concessions to implement them in Croatia?
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Old July 10th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #3388
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Speaking of bridges - what's happening with Pelješac Bridge? Is the construction still on hold?
A few days ago a Dubrovnik local newspapers published that construction will soon continue as it appears the government has obtained the money. However, we have general elections soon so I’d take this with a grain of salt.

Source in Croatian
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Old July 10th, 2011, 06:56 PM   #3389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.

I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.
Like x-type said, you can use ENC on Istrian Y (A8, A9) but you need to code your device at Bina-Istra selling station (at Učka or Pula toll station), because there's a special account for their system, so you have to put money on both accounts, HAC/ARZ and BINA-ISTRA. It's a little bit impractical, but it is functional So, ENC could be used at all croatian motorways, except A2.

The implementation of the vignette system wouldn't be so difficult, because every of the concessionaires know exactly the traffic on their motorway sections, and there is an association for concessionaires called HUKA which is some kind of controlling mechanism. You can see that ARZ and HAC don't have problems in their network (ARZ operates first part of A1+A6+A7, while HAC operates part of A1 and the rest of cro motorways) and that they know how to distribute the incomes.

But I think vignette system is better for bigger countries with many motorway sections/branches, where there is more than one way to come from point A to point B using motorways, so you buy a vignette and drive wherever you need to, not calculating the cheapest route (often the shortest one). Croatia should wait for another 10 years to complete its network (A11, A12, A13, some expressways in Podravina and Moslavina) which will be a decent motorway network with many alternatives and the vignette would be a nice solution
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Old July 10th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #3390
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The best option are fuel / car tax-funded motorways like in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, etc.
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Old July 10th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #3391
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The best option are fuel / car tax-funded motorways like in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, etc.
we already pay the tax for building the motorways in price of the fuel
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Old July 11th, 2011, 11:14 PM   #3392
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Serious jams at the toll stations at 2x2 motorways with daily flow of approx. 40 000 veh/day are by no means only Croatian origin - it also happens in Poland at A4, A1, A2....
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Old July 12th, 2011, 01:47 PM   #3393
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Serious jams at the toll stations at 2x2 motorways with daily flow of approx. 40 000 veh/day are by no means only Croatian origin - it also happens in Poland at A4, A1, A2....
Jams occur mostly at Lučko (Zagreb) toll station (few pages before we explained why), and at some exits on A1 in Dalmatia, especially on its southernmost end, because of huge number of tourists going to vacation. It can be busy on some motorways (A1, A2, A6, A9 - these are touristic transit routes) but you can still drive at normal speed and there are no jams
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Old July 17th, 2011, 01:01 PM   #3394
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Peljesac Bridge - Can someone tell me the status?
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Old July 17th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #3395
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Peljesac Bridge - Can someone tell me the status?
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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #3396
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Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
There are national roads D1 (Zagreb-Karlovac-Knin-Split) which is an alternative for A1 towards Dalmatia, and D3 (Zagreb-Karlovac-Delnice-Rijeka) as an alternative for A1+A6 towards Rijeka and Istria.
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.671...4&z=11&l=0&m=o

To get to these roads in Zagreb, you have to take the first right exit at Lučko intersection and follow the yellow signs for Karlovac or Rijeka:
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.760...2&z=15&l=0&m=o
Well if I remember well, it was really trickly (or even impossible) to find out the right way at Lucko intersection to the (old) national road to Karlovac. Maybe nowadays, it is signed better or. You cannot pass that way via A3. I tried it one time (10 years ago, in Karlovac it was a bit easier, for direction Jastrebarsko-Zagreb as well...)
Anyway, I suppose that the beginning of the national road D1 to Split is just the border crossing Macelj. The motorway Zagreb-Macelj has been completed so that the old national road might be "overlayed" by the motorway in any section(Oroslavlje-Krapina bypass)?..
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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #3397
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Yeah, I can second that... Last year on my way to HR, we had a huge delay at Zagreb, but I noticed that "card booths" at Lučko were opened, so on our way back I just took the card booth lanes and it took me approx. 5 minutes to pass Lučko toll booth. The non-card lanes were really full that day, causing significant delay...
That is definitely right. It issue is also about the long-term habits of the tourists. That it is not necessary to pay only in cash. That there is the opportunity to pay by credit card or even via ENC. IMO, it could be sometimes about the fear to pay be credit cards abroad or if the right catagory of the car will be finally charged there....
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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #3398
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Well if I remember well, it was really trickly (or even impossible) to find out the right way at Lucko intersection to the (old) national road to Karlovac. Maybe nowadays, it is signed better or. You cannot pass that way via A3. I tried it one time (10 years ago, in Karlovac it was a bit easier, for direction Jastrebarsko-Zagreb as well...)
Ot is signed in the same was already for cca 10 years. You must take exit to "Zagreb jug (south)" and then to Lucko".
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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:43 AM   #3399
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The sole size of the toll station is not a problem. The problem is the fact that this is the point where all directions from north and east (A2, A3 from SLO, A3 from Slavonia and A4) come to one point where the toll system begins (where you get the toll card, which is not a long procedure). But A1 is so highly congested that there's no enough space to drive on. The traffic often reduces at Karlovac exit (because of the daily commuters and local people going on the "old" road), and at the Bosiljevo-II junction it's ok, because that's the spot where 2 motorways split (A1 and A6).

Regarding Lučko toll station (direction north, to Zagreb) - that's the problem, because everyone has to pay the toll, which takes a while. But the jam would be reduced if they use automatic/electronic paying system at the Demerje station (3 km from Lučko/Zg), from which those 2 lanes are separated until Zagreb:
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.724...8&z=17&l=0&m=s
Concerning the traffic jams, it should be highlighted that the clear progress has been achieved in Croatia in past years..... If there are not maintainance works at tunnels Mala Kapela or Sveti Rok there are no delays at A1 behind Karlovac. The bottleneck (we are talking about tourists "peak times") there might be the toll station Zagreb-Lucko and the tolls stations at the current end of the motorway. I would expect not so long traffic jams at the tolling stations Sv.Helena and Gorican at the A4 (another issue is that this route is partially used by tourist trying to "bypass Slovenia"). Another bottleneck is the border crossing Macelj (plus one tunnel there still with only single tube).
The "old" national road D1 from Karlovac is certainly the good option for local as well as for tourists traffic. It is free of charge and the traffic jams are over after the opening of the A1 (the traffic is splitted). And the road is not in bad condition. Many people would like to visit the national park "Plitvicka jezera" on the way to Adriatic Sea. On the other hand there are disadvantages of this route. Even if the countryside is not so populated there are many speed limits (controlled by police) due to "neverending" villages and due to many corners sometimes it is not so easy to overtake slow cars....The detours (as before 15/07 this year near Knin) could be another trouble...
Another improvement (not last) is the bypass-motorway A7 in Rijeka/Bakar. For example the former road connection between that motorway and the Jadranska magistrala (Bakar-Kostrena-eastern part of the city Rijeka) was a real nightmare.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 11:57 PM   #3400
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And 35 km between Croatia and Maribor.
I don't really understand why they don't use parallel border crossings as they are completely deserted. And even they all lead to the same motorway as Macelj crossing. Not to mention that almost every tourist has the GPS.
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