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Old August 20th, 2011, 03:50 PM   #3441
PhirgataZFs1694
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it has. also, today our prime minister saide that they had closed financial construction for its construction. ok, i don't trust her because she's a lying bitch who is buying her election votes with that (her predcessor, who is now in jail bought elections exactly with that bridge), but there is other side of medal: if oposition win elections in 4 months, they are even more pro-european orientated. and they are against bridge due to its costs, at least in this situation. so Neum area shouldn't be an obstacle for EU. finally, what about Büsingen (German exclave in Switzerland)? they have never had any problems with Schengen border.
How many and how wide will lanes be? Will there be any emergency lanes, pedestrian walks, bicycle lanes? What type will the bridge be? Any visualisations?
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Old August 20th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #3442
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what about Büsingen (German exclave in Switzerland)?
Not the same. Switzerland is member of Schengen, it never had visa regime with its neighbours. BiH citizens enter with visa in EU countries.
Double external boundaries control in Neum corridor will be a terrible shock for the citizens and guests of Dubrovnik and Southern Dalmatia.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #3443
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There is no visa requirement for Bosnian citizens in the European Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_re...ovina_citizens
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Old August 20th, 2011, 10:35 PM   #3444
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How many and how wide will lanes be? Will there be any emergency lanes, pedestrian walks, bicycle lanes? What type will the bridge be? Any visualisations?



i think it should be 2+2 without central barrier (or with thin, for instance Jerseys).
type: beam bridge with cable stayed part in the middle
main span: 568 metres, height 55 metres
pilons' height: 187 metres over sea level
width: 21 metres (road width: 17 metres, it's kinda unclear to me, but probably 4x3,50 or 4x3,75 without hard shoulders)

if you want details, i can translate official article from croatian into english.

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Not the same. Switzerland is member of Schengen, it never had visa regime with its neighbours. BiH citizens enter with visa in EU countries.
as Chris said - BIH doesn't have visa system for EU. and Switzerland is Schengen area member only since 2008. what was before?
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Old August 20th, 2011, 11:19 PM   #3445
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Thank you very much for the information.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 09:38 PM   #3446
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Frankly, it's not a problem with the border crossings on both sides of Neum (i.e. Klek and the other one, which is on the opposite side of village Hodilje on subpeninsula Pelješac), where for now one can relatively easy pass the border, let's say in Schengen proportion.

The problem is very poor quality of the "Jadranska Magistrala" on the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina (they call it M-2, where M is for Magistrala, the old Yugoslav term). On the whole M-2 there is speed limit of 60 km/h, even outside of urban area. And there are also radar ambushs. Every time I passed there I saw at least one, changing places and catching also the tourists who travel to Dubrovnik. So after this, I fully understood the tourists from Netherlands who on the Croatian D-8 after the border to Dubrovnik drove about 60 kmh, even there where the speed limit is 80 or 90 kmh.

Because, as a Croatian citizen, I cannot enforce my government to urge Bosnian government to improve Bosnian part of Adriatic Touristic Road, I have full right to demand from my government a bridge which will avoid such a terrific road conditions on foreign soil.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 09:44 PM   #3447
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And Chris, you should know that when Croatia enters EU (probably on July 1st, 2013), the Neum border crossings will become the outer EU border (for a time not the Schengen borders), so the check times will be much longer, in order to prevent smuggling and counterfeit, because exactly this will be the demand from Bruxelles eurocrates to the Government of Croatia.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 10:08 PM   #3448
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I think also that in the Croatian negotiations for entering EU there are some interesting clauses:
- The goods cannot be transported from Dubrovnik area to the rest of Croatian soil and vice versa through the Neum corridor (area out of the EU) by trucks which are heavier than 5 or 7,5 tonnes (I don't know precise numbers). So Croatia should transport such load either by air or sea or by trucks via the ferry from Ploče to the Pelješac peninsula. (And I fully agree with that condition which is intending to prevent smuggling.)
- The flocks of sheeps from Bosnia cannot enter Croatian territory (and the EU). Also, similar flocks from Croatia cannot leave Croatia (and the EU).
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:52 AM   #3449
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- The goods cannot be transported from Dubrovnik area to the rest of Croatian soil and vice versa through the Neum corridor (area out of the EU) by trucks which are heavier than 5 or 7,5 tonnes (I don't know precise numbers). So Croatia should transport such load either by air or sea or by trucks via the ferry from Ploče to the Pelješac peninsula. (And I fully agree with that condition which is intending to prevent smuggling.)
what are you talking here about? lorries are passing through Neum without any problems. i am not sure if they even have an obligation to declare goods for passing through BIH on that short part. i will ask drivers in my firm about that, they often travel to Dubrovnik with 40 t lorries. HR and BIH even have an agreement to have free lorry traffic without CEMT authorizations (the same is with Slovenia and Hungary). with EU or Schengen that will not change.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:54 AM   #3450
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- The flocks of sheeps from Bosnia cannot enter Croatian territory (and the EU). Also, similar flocks from Croatia cannot leave Croatia (and the EU).
How are the going to enforce this? Sheep know no boundaries. They just baa.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:01 AM   #3451
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How are the going to enforce this? Sheep know no boundaries. They just baa.
By deploying at least 1000 shepherds into a custom service to fiercely secure border from the sheep threats coming outside the EU zone.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:43 AM   #3452
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You may laugh now, but we'll see who is gonna laugh at least.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:20 AM   #3453
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The Eu doesn't want to give us the funds for the bridge because they think that in the long term the bridge won't be nessesery because they expect Bosnia and Herzegovina to become member of the EU.The political situation in B&H is far from stable and the country will probably desintegrate before it becomes a EU member.If Croatia decides not to build the bridge the Sarajevo(muslim) government can easily create road blocks or find a way to damage Croatia and it's economy.The bridge is expensive but it is very important for Croatia.The problem is that Bruxelles doesn't see it this way and they still live in a sort of a crazy dream where they expect the whole European continent to become part of EU.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:26 AM   #3454
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How about an international agreement between Zagreb and Sarajevo? I mean, Croatia would build a motorway-standard road north of Neum with no exits in BiH, with a high fence on both sides and it would be closely guarded by border patrol agents from both countries.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:22 PM   #3455
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there was the same thing in Nova Gorica, before Schengen, and even during iron curtain.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:25 PM   #3456
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Tha famous "Osimo road"
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strada_di_Osimo
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:37 PM   #3457
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Something like that was what I had in mind. Of course, in this situation it should be guarded more because it's close to an inhabitated area. More, at least one overpass should be built to connect Neum with rest of BiH.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 04:45 PM   #3458
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The Slovenian National Road 402 connecting Nova Gorica with Podsabotin runs for 1,6km across Italian territory. This section is fenced and it's controlled by Slovenian police although it's geographically in Italy. There are overpasses connecting Sabotino mountain with the rest of Italy. This road was completed in 1985 following the Treaty of Osimo (a town in Marche, central Italy) between I and YU. This border wasn't a real Iron Curtain because Yugoslavia was a neutral country not bounded with Soviet Union and people could cross it freely only with ID.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 04:49 PM   #3459
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^ cross it using that road, for the rest of the border you needed a passport or lasciapassare.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 05:09 PM   #3460
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^ cross it using that road, for the rest of the border you needed a passport or lasciapassare.
I said cross freely because you only needed a passport to go to Yugoslavia and was the same for Yugoslavs going to Italy. At that time, western Europeans could go to the rest of eastern Europe only with visas that weren't easy to obtain and was almost impossible for their citizens to visit western Europe.
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