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Old August 22nd, 2011, 05:55 PM   #3461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
How about an international agreement between Zagreb and Sarajevo? I mean, Croatia would build a motorway-standard road north of Neum with no exits in BiH, with a high fence on both sides and it would be closely guarded by border patrol agents from both countries.
if the both sides would do harder, that would be very possible. however, BIH plays on the card that motorway to Dubrovnik goes through BIH teritory near the border, and is funded by HR. of course, for HR it is completely unacceptable so Silver Hen thinks she can find money for the bridge. and she desperately wants to win this year's elections because promising that she could build the bridge brings more votes than promising she can ensure free passing corridor through Neum.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:23 PM   #3462
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Silver Hen? that makes our PM brown rooster.
so you are a lefty?

Last edited by hofburg; August 22nd, 2011 at 10:36 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 03:45 PM   #3463
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Found a new pic of the construction of Peljesac Brigde

[IMG]http://i56.************/2r6kztw.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 04:11 PM   #3464
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=MlJK2y_j6MI

Last edited by Satan Of Panonia; August 23rd, 2011 at 04:11 PM. Reason: ...
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:02 PM   #3465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
there was the same thing in Nova Gorica, before Schengen, and even during iron curtain.
Yugoslavia had nothing to do with iron curtain. Iron curtain was between Nato and Warsaw pact members and YU was none.
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
if the both sides would do harder, that would be very possible. however, BIH plays on the card that motorway to Dubrovnik goes through BIH teritory near the border, and is funded by HR. of course, for HR it is completely unacceptable so Silver Hen thinks she can find money for the bridge. and she desperately wants to win this year's elections because promising that she could build the bridge brings more votes than promising she can ensure free passing corridor through Neum.
Where did you read this? this is pure BS what you write. Source of this stupidity (information) are nationalistic members of this forum from Croatia. There has never been talk about BiH wanting Croatia to fund anything through it's territory. You know that so I don't understand why do you use lies and manipulations.
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Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
Because, as a Croatian citizen, I cannot enforce my government to urge Bosnian government to improve Bosnian part of Adriatic Touristic Road, I have full right to demand from my government a bridge which will avoid such a terrific road conditions on foreign soil.
Improve in what sense?
It is the same as the Jadranska magistrala before and after Neum in Croatia.

Last edited by Bad_Hafen; August 24th, 2011 at 07:09 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #3466
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Oho, we meet again, Bad Haven.
Dear friend, I was traveling through Neum in June. I claim here that the pavement there is in very poor condition, and the conditions in overall ARE NOT THE SAME as on the Croatian D8 from Opuzen to Klek or from opposite side of Hodilje to Dubrovnik. For instance, Croatian D8 on these parts has a third lane for slow vehicles on almost every steep.
You should travel there, take a photographs on Bosnian part versus Croatian parts and post it here, so we all can see that your objection simply doesn't have sense.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:26 PM   #3467
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Curchill speach about iron courtain (http://www.historyguide.org/europe/churchill.html):
"From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an iron curtain has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia, all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and, in some cases, increasing measure of control from Moscow. "

Last edited by danielstan; August 24th, 2011 at 07:41 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #3468
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And let's object about the financing the motorway in Bosnia and Herzegovina, precisely in the Republika Srpska. I appreciate their skills to convince the EU authorities to finance a completely nonsense motorway between Banja Luka and Doboj, because there is a parallel motorway in Croatia (Okučani-Slavonski Brod-Sredanci). I assume that therefore Bosnian government doesn't have enough funds to finance the motorway from Ploče to Dubrovnik in the Popovo Polje walley in the foreseeable future.
But the hard truth is, as the Bosnians don't want to travel from Doboj to Banja Luka via Croatian territory, why shoud we the Croatian people travel from Ploče to Dubrovnik through the Bosnian territory?
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #3469
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I agree D8 in Neum is in worse condition than in Croatia.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #3470
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^well it can be worse, but it is not as he said "terrific road conditions", while Croatian part is perfect according to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
Oho, we meet again, Bad Haven.
Dear friend, I was traveling through Neum in June. I claim here that the pavement there is in very poor condition, and the conditions in overall ARE NOT THE SAME as on the Croatian D8 from Opuzen to Klek or from opposite side of Hodilje to Dubrovnik. For instance, Croatian D8 on these parts has a third lane for slow vehicles on almost every steep.
You should travel there, take a photographs on Bosnian part versus Croatian parts and post it here, so we all can see that your objection simply doesn't have sense.
You compare the part of the road that is in inhabited area with the one that is not. D8 old Yugoslav M2 is the same in all pats.
Pavement is not in bad condition I have passed it, the point of you writing is just your typical bashing of neighbours it is really getting old.
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Originally Posted by danielstan View Post
Curchill speach about iron courtain (http://www.historyguide.org/europe/churchill.html):
"From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an iron curtain has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia, all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and, in some cases, increasing measure of control from Moscow. "
Churchill said it after WW2. But later the meaning of the "iron curtain" changed. Yugoslavia wasn't under Soviet influence and wasn't part of the Warsaw pact.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #3471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
And let's object about the financing the motorway in Bosnia and Herzegovina, precisely in the Republika Srpska. I appreciate their skills to convince the EU authorities to finance a completely nonsense motorway between Banja Luka and Doboj, because there is a parallel motorway in Croatia (Okučani-Slavonski Brod-Sredanci).
Again ignorance!!
1st.
Motorway between Doboj and Banja Luka is not nonsense at all. It connects two biggest cities in BiH Sarajevo and Banja Luka and two the most populated area in BiH Sarajevo valley and Banja Luka region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
because there is a parallel motorway in Croatia (Okučani-Slavonski Brod-Sredanci).
Motorway BL-DO is being mainly built to connect cities inside BiH, so it doesn't have ambition to compete with Zagreb-Belgrade motorway. It also allow the shortest connection between Sarajevo and Western Europe, but they are not building it because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
I assume that therefore Bosnian government doesn't have enough funds
There is no such thing as Bosnian government. There is only council of ministers and they don't have jurisdiction for building motorways in BiH. Buliding motorways is under jurisdiction of two entities Federation and Republika Srpska.
Therefore non-existent Bosnian government doesn't have any funds to start with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
But the hard truth is, as the Bosnians don't want to travel from Doboj to Banja Luka via Croatian territory, why shoud we the Croatian people travel from Ploče to Dubrovnik through the Bosnian territory?
Are you serious to travel between Banja Luka and Doboj trough Croatia?

Please do see the map on link below

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=44...p=1,0&sz=8&z=8
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Old August 24th, 2011, 09:57 PM   #3472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielstan View Post
Curchill speach about iron courtain (http://www.historyguide.org/europe/churchill.html):
"From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an iron curtain has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia, all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and, in some cases, increasing measure of control from Moscow. "
Austria beyond the Iron Curtain?
And Stettin, PL wasn't exact because East Germany was also part of the Eastern Block.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 10:00 PM   #3473
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Vienna was part of the Soviet occupation zone until 1955.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 10:11 PM   #3474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Vienna was part of the Soviet occupation zone until 1955.
No exactly.
After the war Austria (just like Germany) and Vienna (just like Berlin) was divided into 4 occupation regions.
Maps here:
Austria
Vienna
In 1955 the so called State Treaty (Staatsvertrag) declared Austria as an independent nation for ever and every occupation armies have left the country.

Note: The official reason for occupying Hungary was to hold the way to Austria secure. However, the Soviet Army left Austria in '55 but remained here until '90.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #3475
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Quick question -

On the A3, direction Slavonia Brod - at one point, there appears to be the ruins of a toll station. I don't have a photo, sorry - but can anyone tell me more about it?
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Old August 30th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #3476
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I remember only a building in very bad shape on one of the rest areas on A3, there used to be some facilities next to the INA petrol station, but now it does look like a bit of a ruin.

I have a different question - is there any public information on traffic volumes on motorways in Croatia? I was wondering how traffic on A5 compares to other motorways, because when I drove there some two weeks ago, I encountered just one (1!) car going in my direction for 50km! That does seem weird when you compare it with A1 between Zagreb and Karlovac, which is 2x2 as well, but the traffic is immense (by the way - are there any plans of three-laning A1 west and A3 east of Zagreb?). Honestly it doesn't even seem like making a motorway connection with M6 is going to justify this motorway's existence in full profile, because traffic on M6 south of Szekszárd is rather low too...
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Old August 30th, 2011, 01:27 AM   #3477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
I have a different question - is there any public information on traffic volumes on motorways in Croatia? I was wondering how traffic on A5 compares to other motorways, because when I drove there some two weeks ago, I encountered just one (1!) car going in my direction for 50km! That does seem weird when you compare it with A1 between Zagreb and Karlovac, which is 2x2 as well, but the traffic is immense (by the way - are there any plans of three-laning A1 west and A3 east of Zagreb?). Honestly it doesn't even seem like making a motorway connection with M6 is going to justify this motorway's existence in full profile, because traffic on M6 south of Szekszárd is rather low too...
Here you have data for state roads and motorways (motorways from page 29):
http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/WEB%20-...a/PLDP2010.pdf

You can see that the average summer daily traffic on A5 is between 1995 (on northern section) and 3192 vehicles (on the southern section). It's very low due to many factors, such as incompletion of the whole corridor (HU-HR-BIH), big distances between exits (so it's impractical for local users), and the fact that many people use old state road D2 instead of motorways A5+A3 on Osijek-Zagreb direction

About widening - there is a plan for widening A1 on Zagreb-Karlovac section, which is the busiest (big local+big transit traffic) and A3 from Jankomir to Ivanja Reka interchange (Zagreb bypass) Both sections are planned to have 3 lanes in each direction

Last edited by Puležan; August 30th, 2011 at 01:35 AM.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 01:35 AM   #3478
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Thanks a lot!
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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #3479
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Traffic volumes on A5 are very low indeed. It will increase somewhat after M6/A5 are completed, but it won't reach full potential until there is a motorway corridor across Bosnia to the Adriatic coast. Another issue is that all counties in eastern Slavonia are among the least developed in Croatia. Most are at only 60 - 65% of the Croatian average.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 05:37 PM   #3480
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Quote:
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... Another issue is that all counties in eastern Slavonia are among the least developed in Croatia. Most are at only 60 - 65% of the Croatian average.
Maybe this is the main reason for such low traffic, because there aren't any bigger industrial zones, and there are only 2 big cities (Osijek and Đakovo) which attract traffic. Maybe if A5 had been planned with more exits and connections to local roads (for smaller towns and villages), it would have stimulated investors and local authorities to build some ind.zones or technological parks, like on A1 (Dugopolje (St), Podi (Ši)...). The sole completion/connection M6/A5 (or even BIH part) will not solve the problem and raise the traffic volume, because even today there's no big traffic on that corridor (Vc) on normal state roads through Croatia and BiH.
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