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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #4461
Eulanthe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
When one country (Croatia, from 1.7.) is an EU member and the other is not (Bosnia & Herzegovina, and won't be for sure in next 10 years), than separate border crossings are a necessity.
There is a precedence too: in 1990s Croatia asked Slovenia to build one terminal on Obrežje/Bregana border crossing, but Slovene authorities refused with explanation that these countries won't enter the EU at the same time, so the separate terminals had to be built.
Comparison with Licko Petrovo Selo is not logical one, because this crossing will not have fitosanitary facilities.
There's no need to have separate crossings - Poland is building several new terminals at the minute, all on the Polish side. As long as the border crossing of the EU state is on EU territory, all is fine. If the phytosanitary facilities are a problem, then simple - build the border crossing building exactly on the border line and have the facilities across the borderline too.

Slovenia were probably just being awkward - there was no reason to reject Croatia like that, unless Croatia wanted one terminal on the Croatian side. Not to mention that at that time, crossings on the non-EU side were commonplace - many of the major terminals on the Polish border were in Poland, not Germany.

There is absolutely no reason why Croatia can't share border crossing facilities with Bosnia and Montenegro at most border crossings these days. The one near Prevlaka is a great case in point - why not simply share a building rather than two?

For what's it's worth, can anyone tell me why there isn't a small border crossing in Bregana at the restaurant Kalin? I visited there (pictures to come...) and was struck by the astounding stupidity of parking the car on the Croatian side and having to walk all the way round to the car border crossing for a coffee! I assume that Croatia will abandon exit controls with Slovenia on 1.7 too?

(if you're wondering why I didn't just drive to the restaurant - there was a horrific queue for about 2km from the border crossing. Ruined my day - I wanted to go explore the area around Slovenska Vas, but...)

Talking about a motorway to Montenegro, they absolutely should go ahead with building a motorway to Dubrovnik. Traffic is only going to get worse, and Montenegro may be able to get some money to build from the border to Tivat at least.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:39 AM   #4462
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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I assume that Croatia will abandon exit controls with Slovenia on 1.7 too?
Not yet, border control remains after July 1st. Just after Croatia joins Schengen area, then border controls will disappear.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #4463
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He's asking about exit controls.

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Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
For what's it's worth, can anyone tell me why there isn't a small border crossing in Bregana at the restaurant Kalin?
There are already two border crossings in Bregana, you can't have a border crossing for a few houses. And it would be for locals anyway. Looking forward to pics.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #4464
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That is a part of border control, isn't it?
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #4465
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Slovenia abolished exit controls to Italy, Austria, and Hungary on 1.5.2004 (and vice-versa).
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:04 AM   #4466
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Funny, I remember police officers checking documents from both countries (on same point). Or do I not remember good?
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #4467
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I don't know, but that's how it was, at least officially. I know I wasn't checked by both countries.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:34 PM   #4468
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Most maps show it by Ploče.
Haven't known that. I have only information as on wikipedia.

"The A1 currently ends near the city of Vrgorac, and it is planned to end at Dubrovnik, but no concrete plans exist for the motorway route past Metković"

The maps of Srpska and Bosnia are very different.

The Bosnian maps has a motorway from Ploce to Pocitelj and then a branch southeastwards.
The Srpska map has a motorway from Dragovije (M-6) to Trebinje. But there is also a motorway branch to Dubrovnik.

In any case, a Croatian motorway to Dubrovnik could be implicated and would not be useless.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #4469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Slovenia abolished exit controls to Italy, Austria, and Hungary on 1.5.2004 (and vice-versa).
I'm trying to work out what the plan is - because Poland didn't abolish exit checks at that time. The only difference in Poland was that (mostly) they worked side by side outside of the booths rather than being sat in the control booths like before.

Quote:
There are already two border crossings in Bregana, you can't have a border crossing for a few houses. And it would be for locals anyway. Looking forward to pics.
Sure you can - so many of them existed before 2007! With EU entry, there's really no reason not to allow at least pedestrian traffic to cross there and control it on a random basis. So many of the smaller border crossings really should be opened up on 1.7 - many of them existed prior to Schengen entry in Poland/Czech Republic/Slovakia too, without permanent control.

Thinking more about it, wouldn't it make sense to build (at least, if possible) from Slano to Dubrovnik Airport? This is why - at least to my eyes - it seems that Croatia is quite content to argue about Neum because they simply don't have the money needed to build further on anyway.

Last edited by Eulanthe; May 12th, 2013 at 12:48 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:04 PM   #4470
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First pictures of A12 u/c (section from Vrbovec interchange (A12/A13) to Križevci, cca 13 km)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcspartak View Post
Jućer sam bio u Križevcu i usput posjetio gradilište A12 ili BC prema Koprivnici i vidi se popriličan napredak ,trenutno se radi na izlazu Cubinec okinuo sam neko fotke onako iz automobila usput





The prime minister announced yesterday that this road is being built as an 2x2 expressway (without emergency lanes), as well as A13 towards Bjelovar. Also, it's not sure if the designation will remain A12 or it will be renamed, because few months ago Ministry of transport announced that it's renamed to D10 (because of stupid croatian practice of non-having separate designations for expressways). Although, A12 and A13 are built (will be built) with motorway-standards: mild curves, dual carriageway... The only thing they will lack is a hard shoulder.
On the other hand, Rijeka bypass, although built as an expressway without hard shoulders and with big curves, has "A" designation (A7). The "istrian Y" also is a motorway, even though that the old (firstly built) carriageway doesn't have a hard shoulder and it has narrower lanes (3,5 m instead of 3,75 m), but according to the law motorways can have such lane width. So, the only reason of non-calling A12 and A13 "motorways" is stupidity
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #4471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
The maps of Srpska and Bosnia are very different.
Map of Srpska does not consider having a transit motorway at Trebinje, just an expressway or better two-lane main road to connect Trebinje to other towns in vicinity.

Map of Bosnia shows motorway from Počitelj toward SE on a really complicated terrain, which goes through nothing and it is quite expensive and useless proposal.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #4472
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Originally Posted by keber View Post
Map of Srpska does not consider having a transit motorway at Trebinje, just an expressway or better two-lane main road to connect Trebinje to other towns in vicinity.
I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #4473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
So, the only reason of non-calling A12 and A13 "motorways" is stupidity
I'd be glad of Croatia wouldn't be as stupid as many others. It doesn't matter if there are hard shoulders or not. Some old German Autobahns still have no hard shoulders, but they were and they are important Autobahns.
Rather many new grade-separeted 2x2 roads with hard shoulders are not signed as Autobahn, e.g. B6n, B9, B15n. That's stupid! And it is the same shit in Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia,...

I hope Croatia will not get crackbrained like us.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #4474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?
To be precise - the terms "highway" and "motorway" are not synonyms.

Highway is a 2-lane main road, called "magistrala" or "magistralni put", usually with 90 km/h limit - shown as red line on the map.

Motorway is a dual carriageway (2 lanes per direction + emergency lanes), without at-level crossings, with 130 km/h limit, shown as dotted red-yellow line (planned motorways in the northern part of the country). The only finished section of motorway is Banja Luka-Gradiška (E661), which is shown in bolded dark orange line (with yellow line in the middle).

Expressway is a single- or dual-carriageway road, without at-level crossings, with 100 or 110 km/h limit, shown as blue (or dotted blue) line on the map, in south-east and eastern part of the country.


So, on that map we are discussing about, blue dotted line is planned expressway, probably dual carriageway, but the route isn't defined yet (as mentioned before), because there's not enough people on that area to have 2 parallel motorways/expressways (bosnian and croatian one) both going to Montenegro.
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Last edited by Puležan; May 12th, 2013 at 01:50 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:44 PM   #4475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?
Legend is correct, just English translation is wrong. Yellow/red are motoways and blue are expressways (I presume two-lane, not four)
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Old May 12th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #4476
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Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
To be precise - the terms "highway" and "motorway" are not synonyms.
Of course. But that was not my question .
But keber already replied that the translation within the legend is wrong!
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Old May 12th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #4477
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Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
So, on that map we are discussing about, blue dotted line is planned expressway, probably dual carriageway, but the route isn't defined yet (as mentioned before), because there's not enough people on that area to have 2 parallel motorways/expressways (bosnian and croatian one) both going to Montenegro.
That's one more reason to build a coastal motorway on Croatian side up to Dubrovnik. Anyway, it would make sense to build that southern section soon.

Are the plans for the motorway section Doli-Dubrovnik already approved? The German wikipedia asserts that. If that's right, the only reason for not building the section now is the missing funding.
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Old May 13th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #4478
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Most maps show it by Ploče.
Just the ones of the Bosnian Federation... However, Bosnia has no money and they have other motorways to build from which the country will benefit more than this proposed transit route in the middle of nowhere.

Last edited by stickedy; May 13th, 2013 at 05:30 PM.
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Old May 13th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #4479
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
That's one more reason to build a coastal motorway on Croatian side up to Dubrovnik. Anyway, it would make sense to build that southern section soon.

Are the plans for the motorway section Doli-Dubrovnik already approved? The German wikipedia asserts that. If that's right, the only reason for not building the section now is the missing funding.
As far as I know this is the case. Works were stopped before they really started but everything should be ready to build that beast as soon as money is available.

Here you'll find the complete description from Doli to Dubovnik: http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/hr/a1.htm

Last edited by stickedy; May 13th, 2013 at 05:34 PM.
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Old May 13th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #4480
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Malo sam obišao danas od Praputnjaka do Križišća

Viadukt Križišće





između viadukta Križišće i zaboravih ime drugoga viadukta



kraj Križišća prema mostu



dalje prema mostu



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