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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:09 PM   #5061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal20a View Post
I think the A1 should connect to D62 Nova Sela
it will be somewhere there, yes
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 12:03 AM   #5062
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red is u/c, turqoise is upgrading from half-profile to full profile.

Can you please tell me why is Croatia going to spend so much money for building three close and paralel motorways / exp.ways to Hungarian border (A4 and Slavonian Y)?
Croatia has excellent motorways, which I like to drive on, but I can't see the necessity for that.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 02:46 AM   #5063
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I think A1 could easily be extended to someplace near Opuzen, right after bridge over Neretva.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 03:09 AM   #5064
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Croatia has a good network of motorways and a very good one when someone considers overall wealth and actual population. Croatia is close to building 100km of motorway to finish it off really.

I don't think the 2 new ex Zagreb routes to Hungary are supposed to get there, only a few km or a few more km out of Zagreb on traffic grounds. The traffic through to Hungary is very small on those routes.

I do think the EU will persuade Bosnia to allow a straight through the Neum corridor extension of the A1 once Croatia builds the 3 ( short) motorway connections 'TO' Bosnia. One is already complete near Neum, one is under construction and one small one is missing towards Banja Luka.

But as regards the motorways of importance within Croatia very little needs to be done, in fact no country EVER joined the EU with such a compete network of roads and a lot of the missing bits require international co ordination which is an unusual situation to be in ( I mean towards Bosnia, through Bosnia at Neum and towards Slovenia. ) .

In Irelands first 15 years in the EU only 1km of motorway was built every year, average, and 15km is a very quiet year in Croatia.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 02:28 PM   #5065
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Mirna bridge on A9 motorway
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Originally Posted by polde404 View Post
Meanwhile, evo jedna iz šetnje ispod viadukta Mirna.


Limska draga viaduct on A9 during construction (cca 1990-1991)
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 04:56 PM   #5066
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Originally Posted by suvi genije View Post
Can you please tell me why is Croatia going to spend so much money for building three close and paralel motorways / exp.ways to Hungarian border (A4 and Slavonian Y)?
Croatia has excellent motorways, which I like to drive on, but I can't see the necessity for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post

I don't think the 2 new ex Zagreb routes to Hungary are supposed to get there, only a few km or a few more km out of Zagreb on traffic grounds. The traffic through to Hungary is very small on those routes.
answer for both of you: A12 and A13 (those two motorways) wll not achieve Hungarian border so soon, trust me. A12 will reach Križevci (red part u/c) in 1-2 years, and probably Koprivnica in next 5-6 years. A13 will be finished till village Farkaševac (absolutely unimportant, just a future exit) in a year or two, and probably Bjelovar ni next 4-5 years. traffic there requires higher standard road, especially on the rout to Bjelovar because current state road (D28) runs through too many villages on its route. similar is at D41, which has significantly lower amonts of traffic though. needed or not? at HR forum many of us approve only A13 to Bjelovar and major reconstruction od D41.

about 4 parallel motorways - A2 and A4 are aproved imo. both of them carry traffic to important border crossings and different directions. joined motorway in the middle of them would not be that possible due to mountain Medvednica behind Zagreb and pretty complicated terrain there. A12 and A13 - local politics played their role there. while A13 can have function of traffic at relation Osijek - Zagreb (many drivers from Osijek avoid tolls and use state road D2), A12 will be built only for local traffic where it is not that high actually, just because of strong lobby from Koprivnica.
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 10:28 PM   #5067
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What is the current status of new motorway bypass of Zagreb ?
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Old November 23rd, 2013, 11:29 PM   #5068
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What is the current status of new motorway bypass of Zagreb ?
It's only put into spatial plans for some plans in far future. It's not needed at the moment, because adding a third lane to the existing bypass (A3) would suffice. Or, in my opinion, it would be better to do something like on the italian motorways, for example in Bologna, where there are two extra carriageways (superstrada) on both sides, which have all the exits, while the main motorway route is just for through-traffic only.

Similar thing is made in Serbia on Novi Sad bypass. Such project (2+2+2+2) would be enough for traffic amount in the next 40 years
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Old November 24th, 2013, 11:04 AM   #5069
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What's the AADT on the A3?
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Old November 24th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #5070
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Quote:
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What's the AADT on the A3?
ASDT ~55.000 on the Zagreb bypass.
http://www.hac.hr/files/File/promet/.../PLDP_2013.pdf

AADT ~35.000.
http://www.hac.hr/files/File/promet/...PGDP_2012..pdf

Here's link to the stats from 2008-2013: http://www.hac.hr/hr/promet-i-sigurn...-prometa/pgdp/
*prosječni godišnji dnevni promet - AADT
*prosječni ljetni dnevni promet - ASDT
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Old November 24th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #5071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
ASDT ~55.000 on the Zagreb bypass.
AADT ~35.000.
So 2x2 is still adequate but it would be good to have 2x3 in summer. The distance b/n the interchanges is also not too small.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #5072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
It's only put into spatial plans for some plans in far future. It's not needed at the moment, because adding a third lane to the existing bypass (A3) would suffice. Or, in my opinion, it would be better to do something like on the italian motorways, for example in Bologna, where there are two extra carriageways (superstrada) on both sides, which have all the exits, while the main motorway route is just for through-traffic only.

Similar thing is made in Serbia on Novi Sad bypass. Such project (2+2+2+2) would be enough for traffic amount in the next 40 years
no need for that lateral bypass lanes there because Zagreb bypass is not used that much for local traffic, but mostly for transit. exits are not dense there, nor there is need for that because of the shape of the city, and bypass still runs quite far from the city itself. and it is not tolled. Novi Sad bypass has got that 2+2+2+2 configuration mostly because of toll stations there. 3+3 will do just fine for Zagreb.
if it would have been urban motorway, then laterals would be good solution.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #5073
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no need for that lateral bypass lanes there because Zagreb bypass is not used that much for local traffic, but mostly for transit. exits are not dense there, nor there is need for that because of the shape of the city, and bypass still runs quite far from the city itself. and it is not tolled. Novi Sad bypass has got that 2+2+2+2 configuration mostly because of toll stations there. 3+3 will do just fine for Zagreb.
if it would have been urban motorway, then laterals would be good solution.
True. But in my proposal that section of A3 could easily be incorporated into closed tolling system, along with A1, A2 and A4. Also, in that case we would benefit from getting rid of Lučko toll station and its queues during summer (although Demerje non-cash toll station is doing a great job since it's been built). Another thing I had on mind when I suggested 2+2+2+2 scheme was situation around today's Buzin exit, because the new interchange Jakuševec (A3/A11) will be just 500-600 m east from Buzin, and it's still not sure if Buzin will be closed or not. In that sense, my 2+2+2+2 proposal was created
But I agree, 3+3 is the best solution at the moment and for the future.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #5074
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But I agree, 3+3 is the best solution at the moment and for the future.
But it is still 2x2, isn't it?
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Old November 24th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #5075
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yes, that would be good only for implementation of tolling at Zagreb bypass.
exits Buzin and Jakuševac - even if they close exit Buzin, I think I've heard something about new exit Klara little bit further to the west. at future knot Jakuševac lateral merging lanes are already done, so it would be a piece of cake to make them 300 metres longer.

@MichiH: yes, whole Zagreb bypass is still 2+2. if there will be upgrading, first upgraded motorway on 3+3 will be A1 Zagreb - Karlovac. after that comes Zagreb bypass
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Old November 24th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #5076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
IMHO the most logical solution would be corridor with one exit with border checks. Someone travelling from Split to Dubrovnik would hardly notice he/she is on Bosnian territory and it would have benefits for Bosnia as well (connection to European road network).
Name one reason why should Bosnia ore even the town of Neum want to have a corridor on its territory if
Quote:
Someone travelling from Split to Dubrovnik would hardly notice he/she is on Bosnian territory
while Bosnia and particularly Neum needs the tourists?
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Old November 24th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #5077
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Is place left on and below the structures (viaducts, ect.) for 3x3 extention on A-3 Zagreb by-pass and A-1 Zagreb-Karlovac ?

Last edited by bewu1; November 24th, 2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #5078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
Croatia has a good network of motorways and a very good one when someone considers overall wealth and actual population. Croatia is close to building 100km of motorway to finish it off really.

I don't think the 2 new ex Zagreb routes to Hungary are supposed to get there, only a few km or a few more km out of Zagreb on traffic grounds. The traffic through to Hungary is very small on those routes.

I do think the EU will persuade Bosnia to allow a straight through the Neum corridor extension of the A1 once Croatia builds the 3 ( short) motorway connections 'TO' Bosnia. One is already complete near Neum, one is under construction and one small one is missing towards Banja Luka.

But as regards the motorways of importance within Croatia very little needs to be done, in fact no country EVER joined the EU with such a compete network of roads and a lot of the missing bits require international co ordination which is an unusual situation to be in ( I mean towards Bosnia, through Bosnia at Neum and towards Slovenia. ) .

In Irelands first 15 years in the EU only 1km of motorway was built every year, average, and 15km is a very quiet year in Croatia.
Because of all these motorways Croatia is now in huge debt and deep recession (yes, just like Slovenia, darko06).
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Old November 24th, 2013, 09:06 PM   #5079
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Motorways don't cost much money compared to health care, social benefits, education, etc. You can't really drive a high-income country into huge debt with infrastructure. Spending on infrastructure is simply a too limited part of GDP to make a substantial impact (usually only 1 - 3% of GDP).
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Old November 24th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #5080
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Perhaps we could go too far to off-topic making an appropriate economic analysis here. Adding an additional political analysis would spark more unnecessary anger.

But we may try with a joke: Why did not political leaders of former Yugoslav republics persuade late dictator of Yugoslavia J.B.Tito to divide Yugoslav coast equally? E.g. Slovene coast from Ankaran to Rijeka, Croatian from Rijeka to Zadar, Bosnian from Zadar to Split, Serbian from Split to Ploče, Montenegrin from Ploče to Hercegnovi and Macedonian (FYROM) from Hercegnovi to Ulcinj? After all, he had all the power in his hands to do such a thing.

But the reality was very different.
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