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Old November 24th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #5081
darko06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewu1 View Post
Is place left on and below the structures (viaducts, ect.) for 3x3 extention on A-3 Zagreb by-pass and Z\A-1 Zagreb-Karlovac ?
Not on structures (bridges, viaducts), as far as I know (Hard shoulders are to narrow for a third lane of normal width.). Below them (overpasses), on A3 mostly yes, but below some on A1 no. Zdenčina overpass, just before the new Zdenčina exit in direction Karlovac, shall be torn down.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #5082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewu1 View Post
Is place left on and below the structures (viaducts, ect.) for 3x3 extention on A-3 Zagreb by-pass and Z\A-1 Zagreb-Karlovac ?
as far as i saw, only 1 or 2 of them are not suitable on Zagreb bypass. on A1 almost none of them are suitable for 3+3 configuration.

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Because of all these motorways Croatia is now in huge debt and deep recession (yes, just like Slovenia, darko06).
motorways are not the reason for huge debt.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #5083
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I know there're other reasons, but partly they are. My point is that it's easy to build so many motorways, if you're taking loans all the time.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #5084
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Motorways don't cost much money compared to health care, social benefits, education, etc.
Very true.

Anyway the Croatian network is already complete ( except for around 100km of missing sections or slightly more) which is nothing compared to most countries.

Assuming that completing 100km of the coastal network and the link to the Hungarian network in the east costs €10m a km that would be €1bn of expenditure over (say) the next 7 years and EU funding will pay for some of that so it won't cost the taxpayer €1bn.

Would €1bn over 7 years get Croatia into trouble. I don't think so.

Selling Croatia to tourists as the easiest county to get around in the balkans will probably make the Croatian government an extra €1bn in tax income if the message is transmitted properly. Clever stuff like May and September vignettes at €1 for a month would get the message across in the catchment area and would widen the tourist season window.

There is a lot of good news, now make sure you figure out how to TELL everybody.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #5085
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Or with an exit (or two) in Croatia before the border. It would make the corridor look more closed and safe.
This solution would bring to Bosnia what exactly?
And what is the difference in safety in solution where there is one exit in Bosnia?
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that is an option. but BIH doesn't want to hear for that. the simply see only one solution: entering to BIH at Neum and continuing to Montenegro on BIH teritory. financed by Croatia.
That is just not true, why do you say that, where did you read that?
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I do think the EU will persuade Bosnia to allow a straight through the Neum corridor extension of the A1 once Croatia builds the 3 ( short) motorway connections 'TO' Bosnia. One is already complete near Neum, one is under construction and one small one is missing towards Banja Luka.
the only one which make sense is missing (politics).

Last edited by BL2; November 25th, 2013 at 09:39 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #5086
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This solution would bring to Bosnia what exactly?
And what is the difference in safety in solution where there is one exit in Bosnia?
It's a more closed corridor, if there's no exit. And there could be long queues extending from the border crossing to the main carriageway of the motorway. Croatia is so close to Neum that it wouldn't make much difference, if you left the motorway right before the border and join the existing road to Neum.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:41 PM   #5087
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why would Bosnia be interested in that solution?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 04:59 PM   #5088
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why would Bosnia be interested in that solution?
Because it would still be closer to a motorway than via Pelješac (especially, if coming from Dubrovnik).
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #5089
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Extraterritorial Transit Roads are not new, there were Dutch roads across Germany and (IIRC) Belgian Roads across Holland ( bits of Belgium are totally surrounded by Holland) before the Schengen area made them obsolete. In each case they did not connect to the road network of the 'host' country and were part of the road network of the country that benefitted from them.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:15 PM   #5090
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Extraterritorial Transit Roads are not new
No, indeed not, since Croatia and BIH were parts of Yugoslavia, which had a road through Italy.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #5091
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Because it would still be closer to a motorway than via Pelješac (especially, if coming from Dubrovnik).
BiH doesnt want Neum to be cut off from the rest of Herzegovina and from the rest of the world, the solution you found interesting is not a solution for Neum, because it would isolate town completely. Noting beneficial would come from "proposed solution" for that tourist town.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #5092
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Originally Posted by BL2 View Post
BiH doesnt want Neum to be cut off from the rest of Herzegovina and from the rest of the world, the solution you found interesting is not a solution for Neum, because the town would not only be cut from the rest of Herzegovina, but from the rest of the world.
No, it wouldn't be, you can have overpasses over a corridor, like here.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #5093
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why dont they just build a normal motorway with two border controlls? why complicate things so much.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #5094
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This will actually be the best solution for Neum, if border controls are lifted one day, Neum will have direct access to the European motorway network. It wouldn't have that access with a Pelješac Bridge.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #5095
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Peljesac motorway will not be build.

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
No, it wouldn't be, you can have overpasses over a corridor, like here.
Is it hard to understand that Neum as a town living solely from tourism wouldn't be interested for a solution that would isolate it from the rest of the world? Off course they will demand for a solution that would not isolate the town.
BiH gains nothing from solution that motorway goes only trough it's territory without possibility for the citizen of that country to use it and with isolating it's only access to a sea with it.

But from today's perspective this is not going to happen any soon, because Croatia doesn't have money for motorway southern from Metkovic.

And as of "overpasses" they are not acceptable for EU (according to Croatia politician that are pro Peljesac bridge) because they can not be controlled.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #5096
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Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
But as regards the motorways of importance within Croatia very little needs to be done, in fact no country EVER joined the EU with such a compete network of roads
The UK's network was pretty complete wrt now in 1973. Certainly all the major links were done, save the M25.

Denmark's can't have been far off when it joined either.

Malta had it's network complete when it joined

And it's a bit unfair to consider the original 6 members in 1950s with Croatia in the 2010s...
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In Irelands first 15 years in the EU only 1km of motorway was built every year, average, and 15km is a very quiet year in Croatia.
Ireland didn't particularly need the motorways until later. Traffic levels were light enough that wide single carriageway and non-motorway expressway were perfectly acceptable for the interurbans until later (think Estonia and Latvia currently). And also, Ireland couldn't afford them in 73-88, but could justify the expense building motorways between cities for strategic and safety reasons, despite no real traffic reasons for most of their length, in the 00s.

All this not to put down Croatia's feat - lots of engineering and long distances, due to the geography of the nation. It has one of the best motorway networks east of the former Iron Curtain.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #5097
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Originally Posted by BL2 View Post
Peljesac motorway will not be build.
...
Pelješac bridge will surely be built before BiH will enter the EU. Every Croatian right centre government can borrow necessary means from Wall Street Investment Banks, even with 7% interest. At least Croatia is not dependant on petroleum funds from the Middle East (as is one party in BiH) or on similar funds from Russia (as is another party in BiH). Look, Croatia turned down Mr. Putin to build the famous "Southstream" pipeline, because Croatia really doesn't need Central Asian gas, which is only in transit through Russia.

Frankly, Croatia has now only a few transport queues:
- Zagreb airport,
- railway axes,
- gas pipeline from Split to Dubrovnik (you see, Pelješac bridge will be built for carrying gas pipes from Croatia to Montenegro too)
- motorway from Ploče to Montenegrin border.
Period.

My dear envy friends from the region, this is not Yugoslavia anymore.

Last edited by darko06; November 25th, 2013 at 07:24 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 07:20 PM   #5098
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And to conclude: for people from B&H would be far better to convince its own government to speed up the construction of Odžak-Doboj-Sarajevo-Mostar-Počitelj motorway, to try to persuade people and cargo from Hungary to travel through their country to Ploče, eventually to Podgorica, Tirane and Athens.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #5099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahnftw View Post
why dont they just build a normal motorway with two border controlls? why complicate things so much.
Queues in summer would be longer than the corridor itself. One of these would do it for sure.


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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #5100
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All this not to put down Croatia's feat - lots of engineering and long distances, due to the geography of the nation. It has one of the best motorway networks east of the former Iron Curtain.
west<>east


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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko06 View Post
And to conclude: for people from B&H would be far better to convince its own government to speed up the construction of Odžak-Doboj-Sarajevo-Mostar-Počitelj motorway, to try to persuade people and cargo from Hungary to travel through their country to Ploče, eventually to Podgorica, Tirane and Athens.
the main activities are on that route

Last edited by BL2; November 25th, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
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