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Old July 28th, 2015, 01:35 PM   #5861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickedy View Post
Interesting theory, however, Montenegro and Monteput are seeing this different:
http://www.shop-montexel.com/mp/inde...=39&Itemid=165
http://www.shop-montexel.com/mp/inde...=42&Itemid=169
They can make project about kosmodrom in Zabljak, but that is far from reality. Plan is to build motorway Bar - Boljare (to Serbia) after that Adria-Ionian motorway. The express road at the coast is just wishful thinking.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 02:02 PM   #5862
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It not my way, it's the way of about 95% of all vehicles entering MNE on its western side. Just count the vehicels entering MNE from Croatia and the ones entering from BiH. That's the true situation, drivers are not logic at all... It's most likely because of Sightseeing (Adriatic coast, Dubrovnik, Kotor bay), perhaps because auf lacking knowledge, I have no idea. But sadly that changes nothing on the situation...
How many of those are in transit?
Those are normal turist, who are visiting both HR and MNE, and they don't care about connection with Albania, even if there were full motorway connecting HR and AL trough BiH and MNE they would still use Adriatic highway (Jadranska magistrala) for sightseeing reasons.

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It does exist! Just drive that way... It's not my fault that so many people drive that "bad" way. As I already wrote, the way over Trebinje would be faster and better, but traffic is much, much lower than from Croatia...
They do it not to transit the country as fast as possible, but to do the sightseeing. So this is not the problem, which is connected or can be solved with construction of Adria-Ionian motorway.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 06:40 PM   #5863
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Lol, what a debate. If a highways is build only to follow high volumes of traffic, then why did Croatia not build A1 on the Adriatics riviera? :O

For me, only looking at terrain, it's pretty clear that an highway, if ever build, should be more inland, in friendly terrain, and only conection roads should be build towards Adriatic shore. Medugorje - Trebinje - Niksic - Podgorica - Shkoder - Durres - Vlore - Ioannina seems to be the obvious choice.
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Old July 28th, 2015, 07:05 PM   #5864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasadia View Post
Lol, what a debate. If a highways is build only to follow high volumes of traffic, then why did Croatia not build A1 on the Adriatics riviera? :O

For me, only looking at terrain, it's pretty clear that an highway, if ever build, should be more inland, in friendly terrain, and only conection roads should be build towards Adriatic shore. Medugorje - Trebinje - Niksic - Podgorica - Shkoder - Durres - Vlore - Ioannina seems to be the obvious choice.
...or...Medjugorje - Trebinje - ??? - Podgorica - Shkoder - Tirana - Elbasan - Berat - Tepelene - Ioannina...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:19 AM   #5865
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No offence but I think that last few pages of this tread are little`bit OT.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:27 AM   #5866
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i think we need thread about Adriatic-Ionian mwy.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:09 AM   #5867
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Quote:
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How many of those are in transit?
Those are normal turist, who are visiting both HR and MNE, and they don't care about connection with Albania, even if there were full motorway connecting HR and AL trough BiH and MNE they would still use Adriatic highway (Jadranska magistrala) for sightseeing reasons.

They do it not to transit the country as fast as possible, but to do the sightseeing. So this is not the problem, which is connected or can be solved with construction of Adria-Ionian motorway.
You have close to 0 plain transit traffic. Most cars crossing BiH or Croatia border to MNE are either locals or tourists. There is almost no other traffic. And the situation is bad. So, the first thing of Croatia (region Dubrovnik - Dubrovnik airport) and Montenegro (region Herceg Novi - Tivat - Budva) is to improve the traffic situation. They have to build something. The Adriatic-Ionian motorway (no matter if crossing though BiH or not) is low priority for both countries. In fact for all countries along its route...

So before we see an Adriatic-Ionian motorway from Ploce to Ioaninna, we will see some kind of solution for Dubrovnik and Montenegro.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:17 AM   #5868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasadia View Post
Lol, what a debate. If a highways is build only to follow high volumes of traffic, then why did Croatia not build A1 on the Adriatics riviera? :O

For me, only looking at terrain, it's pretty clear that an highway, if ever build, should be more inland, in friendly terrain, and only conection roads should be build towards Adriatic shore. Medugorje - Trebinje - Niksic - Podgorica - Shkoder - Durres - Vlore - Ioannina seems to be the obvious choice.
In general you alway build expressways ot motorways where the traffic is. The Exception is only if the terrain and population doesn't allow it. That's clearly the case for Croatian A1 between Split and Ploce. There's just no space along the coast. And further North you have the same situation. But, as you can easily see, Croatia plans the A7 especially because of high traffic on D8.

You forget that BiH has no real benefit of this motorway (just high costs and no money). There are two countries who need a better connection there, Croatia and Montenegro. So, it's pretty obvious that both countries will do something about the situation and that solution will be without BiH. They just can't afford to wait for BiH... At least in the first step. Perhaps we will see a motorway inland at Trebinje, but not before 20 years.

There's an exception: If EU defines Adriatic-Ionian motorway as Pan-European Corridor. Then all countries will get financial support and loans for that project. That would change everything.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:22 AM   #5869
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Quote:
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They can make project about kosmodrom in Zabljak, but that is far from reality. Plan is to build motorway Bar - Boljare (to Serbia) after that Adria-Ionian motorway. The express road at the coast is just wishful thinking.
You want to make a bet? I'm pretty sure, that we will see building Verige bridge and at least a short strip of expressway (Herceg Novi - Budva) as soon as there are some kind of funds available. Adriatic-Ionian motorway has close to zero priority for MNE!

They have to improve the traffic situation at the coast to boost tourism there. No tourist wants to wait in traffic jams (OK, when holidays are starting you have another imporession...)... There are already talks with investors for the expresway project with potential investors but there absolute no talks about Adriatic-Ionian motorway.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 09:25 AM   #5870
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you are making this up, right? what talks with what investors. Wishful thinking doesn't build the roads.
you will not see any construction in MNE mark my words.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:06 AM   #5871
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Here's just one link:
http://wire.seenews.com/news/kfw-rea...ipality-452283

Maybe, there won't be money available for the express road along the coast. However, this money won't also be there for Adriatic-Ionian motorway inland. And you can clearly see, what the priority of Montenegro is: First Bar-Boljare motorway (or at least the part from Podgorica to Matesevo) and then the costal region...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:17 AM   #5872
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I have a house near Herceg Novi since 1975. Since I know for my existence they were talking / speculating about the Verige bridge, so belive me when I say not gonna happen.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 11:27 AM   #5873
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Well, money was and is the problem... We will both see, future will tell I don't expect it before 2025 though...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 09:49 PM   #5874
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I think the first priority should remain to be the motorway to Serbia because of the benefits in tourism and transport (port of Bar).

But after that, I don't see much point in Montenegro taking out big loans to build their section of the Adriatic-Ionian motorway. The benefits for Montenegro seem very small. Mainly people travelling between West Europe and Greece/Albania would benefit.

I think a coastal motorway or expressway would serve much more purposes. It can serve tourism. Also this motorway could be built along the coast from Herceg Novi to the Albanian border via Tivat, Budva, and Bar.

The Croatians are much more likely to complete their A1 all the way to Durbrovnik compared to the Bosnians building any motorways in that part of their country.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:32 PM   #5875
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Building from Herceg Novi to Budva is somewhat easy, but the small valley in which Budva is located is filled to the max, so in my opinion, if any motor/expressway is to be built after Budva towards Bar and Albania, Budva needs to be bypassed using a tunnel.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #5876
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Quote:
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Building from Herceg Novi to Budva is somewhat easy, but the small valley in which Budva is located is filled to the max, so in my opinion, if any motor/expressway is to be built after Budva towards Bar and Albania, Budva needs to be bypassed using a tunnel.
Building trough Boka and Orjen is easy? Have you ever been there?
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Old August 1st, 2015, 08:30 PM   #5877
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I made the most stupid mistake of my life today.

I drove from Zagreb to Split on the A1. Yes. I know. You can laugh.

Anyway, carnage at Lucko (the jam was starting on the Zagreb bypass), so I drove to Exit 1 and entered the motorway there. From there to the A6 junction was tolerable, although there were 3 jams that lasted for around 10 minutes each for no real reason apart from various idiots of different nationalities driving like morons.

After the A6, again no major problems - one jam was just before one tunnel, but okay, nothing major. Traffic was very very heavy, but again, tolerable. But Croatian Radio kept reporting a huge jam from the Gospic junction to the entrance of the Sveti Rok tunnel. So we exited at Gospic and asked at the toll station, and apparently there was a huge jam on both sides of the tunnel. Apparently there was a 10km jam in the direction of Zagreb, and a huge jam in the direction of Zadar.

So we went over the mountains instead to Maslenica. I have to admit - I was very very impressed with the D50, D27 and D54. Those roads are a real drivers dream, especially the D27.

Anyway, from Maslenica to Split was fine. Plenty upon plenty of retards on the road, but all in all, tolerable. What seems to cause all the carnage on the A1 is the amount of tourist idiots sitting on the left lane. People were driving 80 on the right lane (why, why?!) - but there were also plenty of idiots sitting at 110 on the left lane.

A question - how new is the D1 from Split to the A1 junction? That road is amazing...

Anyway, I've done the A1 on a summer weekend and never, ever again
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Old August 1st, 2015, 08:50 PM   #5878
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Report with aerial footage of the A1/A3 congestion.

http://www.vijesti.rtl.hr/novosti/12...letjele-guzve/

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Old August 1st, 2015, 09:26 PM   #5879
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Yes, it was just carnage. There's nothing Croatia can really do about the A1 - the traffic levels were just enormous. The only thing I can think of is that they should ban all but cars from the A1 on summer Saturdays, and also ban those towing anything.

Maybe it would help to build 2x3 from Zagreb to the A6, but that wouldn't help the madness later on. Anyway, it took me nearly 6 hours to get from Zagreb to Split because of all the carnage today - normally it would take 3.5 with breaks. Ugh.

On the good side, the apartment is beautiful and close to the beach. It's worth it

(unfortunately, the local supermarket is run by morons, but that seems to be a particularly Dalmatian trait)
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Old August 1st, 2015, 09:36 PM   #5880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
I made the most stupid mistake of my life today.

I drove from Zagreb to Split on the A1. Yes. I know. You can laugh.

Anyway, carnage at Lucko (the jam was starting on the Zagreb bypass), so I drove to Exit 1 and entered the motorway there. From there to the A6 junction was tolerable, although there were 3 jams that lasted for around 10 minutes each for no real reason apart from various idiots of different nationalities driving like morons.

After the A6, again no major problems - one jam was just before one tunnel, but okay, nothing major. Traffic was very very heavy, but again, tolerable. But Croatian Radio kept reporting a huge jam from the Gospic junction to the entrance of the Sveti Rok tunnel. So we exited at Gospic and asked at the toll station, and apparently there was a huge jam on both sides of the tunnel. Apparently there was a 10km jam in the direction of Zagreb, and a huge jam in the direction of Zadar.

So we went over the mountains instead to Maslenica. I have to admit - I was very very impressed with the D50, D27 and D54. Those roads are a real drivers dream, especially the D27.

Anyway, from Maslenica to Split was fine. Plenty upon plenty of retards on the road, but all in all, tolerable. What seems to cause all the carnage on the A1 is the amount of tourist idiots sitting on the left lane. People were driving 80 on the right lane (why, why?!) - but there were also plenty of idiots sitting at 110 on the left lane.

A question - how new is the D1 from Split to the A1 junction? That road is amazing...

Anyway, I've done the A1 on a summer weekend and never, ever again
This was the most stupid mistake of your life? Lucky you.
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