daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 19th, 2016, 12:29 PM   #6041
SRC_100
Registered User
 
SRC_100's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,083
Likes (Received): 3275

Some pictures of D2 expresway (already 2x2) from junction with A5 motorway towards Osijek, took on previous week. Enjoy!









Route
__________________
SRC_100 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 25th, 2016, 01:38 AM   #6042
John Maynard
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lausanne (CH); Warsaw (PL)
Posts: 534
Likes (Received): 376

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFrost View Post
Very good news for Croatian people. Slovenia did it since 2008, and now it's a logical turn for Croatia .

As a matter of fact, I was recently in Croatia, took this motorway:
https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/46.26...a=!4m2!4m1!3e0
which I had to pay 48 HKR (~6,50 €) for only 48 kilometers, and ridiculously even with narrow and tolled 1+1 sections ! That is translated to ~0,14 € per kilometer - I immediately thought that this is very expensive for a not very rich country - no matter why there is so few traffic on its motorways .

I am sure that as soon as the vignette will replace the very expensive tolls, the motorways will be used optimally and most of all - safety and comfort for all drivers - not only for the "rich", and during summer holidays .
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
John Maynard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 04:12 AM   #6043
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 410

What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever :

Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd.

But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 01:21 PM   #6044
Puležan
Registered User
 
Puležan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb (Pula)
Posts: 3,005
Likes (Received): 971

I do the same thing, out of principle. The logic behind that absurdity is to make local/short drives on A2 cheaper and more attracting to local people and to move local/regional transit from local roads (because between Zabok and Krapina there's no other road other than local one; the old "magistrala" was upgraded to A2 on that section).
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Puležan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 01:49 PM   #6045
tfd543
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 376
Likes (Received): 48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever :

Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd.

But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.

Yes but taking the exit requires that you go from 120-150 km/h to 40-50 km/h and then accelerate again. It does not cost the earth to slow down your car in fuel but still, isn't it resentive ? I follow your reasoning that people seek to save money and stick to the same pattern but it is just to find the balance between being small-minded and smart.

For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
tfd543 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #6046
Puležan
Registered User
 
Puležan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb (Pula)
Posts: 3,005
Likes (Received): 971

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfd543 View Post
Yes but taking the exit requires that you go from 120-150 km/h to 40-50 km/h and then accelerate again. It does not cost the earth to slow down your car in fuel but still, isn't it resentive ? I follow your reasoning that people seek to save money and stick to the same pattern but it is just to find the balance between being small-minded and smart.
From the border till Đurmanec exit the speed limit is 110 km/h (100 in tunnels), and from Đurmanec to Krapina it's 60-80-110 (because of the half-profile and couple of tunnels), so it's not such a big deal

Quote:
For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.
EU countries cannot charge different rates to residents and non-residents. Besides, if the vignette price is too high, we might experience the same thing as Slovenia (avoiding motorways by locals and by tourists). Although, if A2 will be incorporated into vignette system, probably everyone would buy it since the trip to the coast is pretty long (A2-A1 / A2-A1-A6-A7-A8-A9).
__________________
PULA+

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Puležan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 06:27 PM   #6047
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 410

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puležan View Post
From the border till Đurmanec exit the speed limit is 110 km/h (100 in tunnels), and from Đurmanec to Krapina it's 60-80-110 (because of the half-profile and couple of tunnels), so it's not such a big deal
Exactly, so all things considered, it's worth doing. I'm not so rich that I earn 2 euro for 45 seconds! Even if you count the time spent braking and getting back up to speed, it really can't be more than a minute lost.

Quote:
Besides, if the vignette price is too high, we might experience the same thing as Slovenia (avoiding motorways by locals and by tourists). Although, if A2 will be incorporated into vignette system, probably everyone would buy it since the trip to the coast is pretty long (A2-A1 / A2-A1-A6-A7-A8-A9).
What could perhaps make a lot of sense would be to have an expensive summer vignette during the busiest times, and a cheaper vignette available during the non-tourist months. Croatia could justify it on the grounds that the motorways are a nightmare in summer, but that they want to encourage as much use as possible in winter. 30 Euro/7 days in summer would be fair enough, but should be as little as 7 Euro/7 days in winter.

(as for Slovenia, avoiding the vignette is great fun )
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 06:31 PM   #6048
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,234
Likes (Received): 18298

I drove in December coming from Varazdin to Ptuj, stayed there over night, then drove further towards Germany. I actually bought the vignette (did it in the evening on arrival to not waste time next day), just for the drive from Ptuj to Austria. I saved around 30 minutes. Had it been summer, maybe I would have taken a toll free alternative, but in December the day is short, so every minute counts, if you don't like driving long in the dark
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2016, 07:29 PM   #6049
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,465
Likes (Received): 3437

i don't like that A2 motorway. it is in bad shape, in some weird concession (Strabag has significant part in ownership), end it has freshly refurbished parallel state road D1 which is pleasure to drive. maybe onle Krapina - Zabok is reasonable to take motorway because D1 runs through inhabitted part there, other parts are open road.

btw, I took A2 recently (a week ago), but I was in hurry, i was speeding all the time (cca 160), otherwise I would take D1.
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...

Sentilj, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2016, 02:27 AM   #6050
John Maynard
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lausanne (CH); Warsaw (PL)
Posts: 534
Likes (Received): 376

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever :

Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd.
Thank you for you advice, but for the return I did better: took main road, drove longer - well, 15 minutes - and paid 0 HKR .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulanthe View Post
But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.
And why shouldn't it be? Apparently, all this motorways construction in Croatia is just a huge booby-trap for tourists, like the whole country remains

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfd543 View Post
For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.
Some people like you do have wacky sadistic fantasies .

Of course, in CH locals and foreigners pay the same price for the vignette, which is 40 CHF (~36,50 €) for 14 months - one of the cheapest in Europe! - and is valid for the entire motorways/expressways network, including long alpine tunnels. Can you remind me how much cost a single trip from Zagreb to Dubrovnik, I didn't hear it ?
__________________

stickedy, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
John Maynard no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2016, 09:45 AM   #6051
tfd543
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 376
Likes (Received): 48

Yea youre right. I just remember I bought the CH sticker and only used it for 1 hour some years ago.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
tfd543 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #6052
satanism
Registered User
 
satanism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sofia/Bratislava
Posts: 4,825
Likes (Received): 5489

Excuse me guys for the rude interruption, but it is crazy to think that at 30 euros for a weekly vignette, a big chunk of transit traffic will not avoid Croatia altogether There are fine alternatives especially considering the source of most transit journeys.Vignette in Hungary is less than 10 euro and is valid for 10 days, as you all probably know
And to "rob" tourists that actually came to Croatia to spend their money in the country this way is quite wrong, imo.
Most probably you will end worse off if this thing comes to life.
__________________
Чл. 140. Водачът на велосипед е длъжен да се движи възможно най-близо до дясната граница на платното за движение.
Чл. 141. На водача на велосипед е забранено:1. да се движи успоредно до друг велосипедист;
3. да се движи в непосредствена близост до пътно превозно средство или да се държи за него;
6. да управлява велосипед по площите, предназначени за движение само на пешеходци. Тази забрана не се отнася за децата велосипедисти.

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
satanism no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #6053
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,762
Likes (Received): 1038

That price can be OK if you drive from Slovenia to the coast. But from Hungary to Zagreb, which is currently about 100 kuna (both ways)? And last summer the motorway was limited to 100 almost all the way.
No way I should pay such a hilarious price.
Not mentioning when I drove to Koprivnica. The toll was approx. 25 kuna (both ways).
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2016, 06:45 PM   #6054
Puležan
Registered User
 
Puležan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb (Pula)
Posts: 3,005
Likes (Received): 971

Quote:
Originally Posted by satanism View Post
Excuse me guys for the rude interruption, but it is crazy to think that at 30 euros for a weekly vignette, a big chunk of transit traffic will not avoid Croatia altogether There are fine alternatives especially considering the source of most transit journeys.Vignette in Hungary is less than 10 euro and is valid for 10 days, as you all probably know
And to "rob" tourists that actually came to Croatia to spend their money in the country this way is quite wrong, imo.
Most probably you will end worse off if this thing comes to life.
Of course we won't rob our tourists with the vignette price. We are not like Slovenia NHF, neighbors

Anyway, 30 EUR for a weekly vignette is not that much considering today's tolls:
- Zagreb-Split: 348 kn (~46 EUR) both ways
- Zagreb-Rijeka: 140 kn (~18 EUR) both ways
- Hungary (Goričan)-Zagreb: 84 kn (~11 EUR) both ways
- Slovenia (Macelj)-Zagreb: 96 kn (~13 EUR) both ways.

So someone coming from Hungary to Rijeka and back must pay ~29 EUR. If he goes to Dalmatia, the toll is even bigger. With the vignette he could go to various destinations (1-day trips) using motorways (for example from Split or Makarska to Krka national park) with no extra paying


Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
That price can be OK if you drive from Slovenia to the coast. But from Hungary to Zagreb, which is currently about 100 kuna (both ways)? And last summer the motorway was limited to 100 almost all the way.
No way I should pay such a hilarious price.
Not mentioning when I drove to Koprivnica. The toll was approx. 25 kuna (both ways).
The A4 is/was in terrible condition so the 100 km/h limit was put on the southern part, but recently the whole section from Popovec to Komin (25 km) was reconstructed and 130 limit is back. I hope that this spring they will reconstruct the last bad part from Komin to Breznički Hum (15 km), just before the summer season.

The section from Breznički Hum to Varaždin is set to 110 km/h anyway because of the steep slopes and not that smooth curves (hard terrain)
__________________
PULA+

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Puležan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2016, 12:13 AM   #6055
Eulanthe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,228
Likes (Received): 410

Maybe the solution for Croatia would be to divide Croatia into two parts, a "North" zone and a "South" zone for vignettes? The line could be just south of the A1/A6 junction. A 15 Euro vignette for each zone would be reasonable, and I can't see how any tourists would lose out with such a plan.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Eulanthe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #6056
Tenjac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 120
Likes (Received): 38

The best way is to keep the present system. I am against vignettes although I would probably benefit from introducing them.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Tenjac no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2016, 01:31 AM   #6057
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,447
Likes (Received): 2183

Are there recent updates about long-awaited road megaprojects in Croatia?
- Istrian Y as a full motorway
- A7 south of Bakar
- A1 south of Ploce
- Peliesac bridge
Have them being cancelled or are they still pending?
(I know that for the last two relationship with BiH is an issue.)
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

ollo, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2016, 07:46 PM   #6058
x-type
con los terroristas
 
x-type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bjelovar [HR]
Posts: 13,465
Likes (Received): 3437

i think that all mentioned projects are on long hold. A9 is fully upgraded (though southbound without emergency lanes, and there are two large 2-lane bridges). A8 is in the same position between Kanfanar and Pazin (here the northbound is without emergency lanes). Pazin - Rijeka is going to be expensive, large tunnel and quite some viaducts, we're not gonna see it soon. alse, from tunnel Učka to Rijeka there is proposed new alignmend, actually new route passing through the hills above the existing route.

A7 south from Bakar - even larger utopia atm.

A1 south of Ploče - not even utopia how impossible it seems to be.

Pelješac bridge is the most realistic thing among offered here actually (what is very ironic).

the only projects that we can expect in near future are completing the A5 (both missing sections, from A3 to BIH, and from Osijek to H), and roads formerly known as A12 and A13, now D10 and Dsomething.
__________________
Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...

italystf, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
x-type no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2016, 10:34 AM   #6059
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

What about A8 section between Pazin and Učka, which is not that difficult like on the Rijeka side? I remember that a lot has been already happening and construction was "already imminent". Now everything is silent
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2016, 11:54 AM   #6060
Puležan
Registered User
 
Puležan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Zagreb (Pula)
Posts: 3,005
Likes (Received): 971

According to this article: http://www.glasistre.hr/vijesti/pula_istra/do-kraja-godine-izgradnja-drugog-profila-ipsilona-521906 the construction of A8 could start at the end of this year. The new minister Oleg Butkovic said that they will prolongate the concession period, but have to wait the green light from the European Commission, because of the influence on the public debt.

Work would last 3 years and the first section Rogović-Ivoli (6 km) could be finished 1 year after start of construction (end of the 2017).

The whole section from Rogovići to Učka is 28,1 km long with 31 object (viaducts, overpasses, a tunnel).
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Puležan no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium