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Old July 26th, 2016, 03:26 PM   #6181
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What a mess BiH will have in ten years if they keep up with this ridiculous uncoordinated buliding. And you just have to look at a map to see whats logical, Zagreb-Sisak-Banja Luka-Sarajevo and Banja Luka-Doboj-Tuzla-Bijeljina would solve all their problems with traffic pretty much for as long as we use cars. If they want to add another section to Split, it could diverge off the Banja Luka-Sarajevo at Jajce via Livno/Tomislavgrad and its all done. Not this mish mash.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 03:51 PM   #6182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spansko View Post
What a mess BiH will have in ten years if they keep up with this ridiculous uncoordinated buliding. And you just have to look at a map to see whats logical, Zagreb-Sisak-Banja Luka-Sarajevo and Banja Luka-Doboj-Tuzla-Bijeljina would solve all their problems with traffic pretty much for as long as we use cars. If they want to add another section to Split, it could diverge off the Banja Luka-Sarajevo at Jajce via Livno/Tomislavgrad and its all done. Not this mish mash.
The problem is that Republika Srpska politicians still dream of Banja Luka being the center of the universe. They don't use logic or rational thinking.

The most important thing would be to finish Bosnian A1 as soon as possible, Croatia needs to get the missing parts of A5 done and Hungary needs to finish their M6 to the border. With the entire motorway from Budapest to Ploče via Osijek, Doboj, Zenica, Sarajevo and Mostar, tourists from Poland or Slovakia could use this motorway as an alternative to Croatian A1 if they travel further down south.

A motorway connecting Banja Luka with Split is a waste of money, as long as BiH hasn't finished construction of A1 and Banja Luka-Doboj (currently u/c).
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Old July 26th, 2016, 04:10 PM   #6183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spansko View Post
What a mess BiH will have in ten years if they keep up with this ridiculous uncoordinated buliding. And you just have to look at a map to see whats logical, Zagreb-Sisak-Banja Luka-Sarajevo and Banja Luka-Doboj-Tuzla-Bijeljina would solve all their problems with traffic pretty much for as long as we use cars. If they want to add another section to Split, it could diverge off the Banja Luka-Sarajevo at Jajce via Livno/Tomislavgrad and its all done. Not this mish mash.

Yes, you're right, pretty much. We will build Banja Luka - Prijedor highway relatively soon (IMO, much more needed route then route via Split), but on one side, Croatia won't build anything after Sisak, and, on the other side, Federation of BiH don't want to build Doboj - Tuzla section. In addition, Republic of Srpska planing to build highway from Doboj to Bijeljina via Brčko, then Loznica on Serbian side. So, there will be Novi Grad - Prijedor section (motorway), then Prijedor - Banja Luka - Doboj - Brčko - Bijeljina - Serbian border (highway, except Brčko section (there will be motorway, probably)).

btw. this discussion is more for BiH thread now?
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Old July 26th, 2016, 04:34 PM   #6184
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The problem is that Republika Srpska politicians still dream of Banja Luka being the center of the universe. They don't use logic or rational thinking.
Yes, Banja Luka wants to minimize the benefits of Croatian A3 as much as we can :>>
Direct connection of Banja Luka and Belgrade, on the Serbian territory, is our strategic interest and that's something what Zagreb and Sarajevo can't change. And we will do that. The question is at what price.

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The most important thing would be to finish Bosnian A1 as soon as possible,
You're missing a point here: Federation of BiH have own goals, and Republic of Srpska has own.
A1 are important highway, ofcourse, but western Bosnia have nothing from A1. Republic of Srpska have nothing from A1, also. Internally, we need one good north-south communication and at least two west-east communications here (EDIT: in western Bosnia). It's that simple.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #6185
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Wouldn't it be simple to make one unified road agency(as 200 mark note) for both FBiH and RS? That means that the coordination issues with the motorways will be solved. I don't mean a unitarian country as whole, but a Unified BiH and RS Road agency, instead of two separate. Or the are dumbs sitting comfortably in the MP chairs, so that there is nothing to rely upon?
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Old July 26th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #6186
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In fact, our state highway companies (we have two of them, one in Republic of Srpska, and one in Federation of BiH) have very good cooperation. Maybe, those companies are the best example how entities can work together.

But, politically, one company for entire BiH is out of question: Simply, we do not trust each other.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 05:58 PM   #6187
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Arrrrrrgh!

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BiH is losing money for the bridge near Gradiska!


BANJA LUKA - Bosnia and Herzegovina will, in all probability, lose funds from IPA 2015 to build a half bridge on the Sava River near Gradiska, because the tender for contractors is unlikely to be able to announce by the end of this year.

Specifically, the "Croatian Roads" have confirmed that it is not realistic that the tender is announced by the end of 2016 because the claim that the necessary documentation is not yet ready, while the Ministry of Transport and Communications appeal to hurry with obtaining documents because during 2016. must be at least started using funds from IPA 2015, which by the end of this year must be tendered.

The "Croatian Roads" stressed that made environmental impact studies for the project is complete the bridge, and new environmental impact studies for the project of the bridge and connecting road in Croatia.

"This study is sent to the BiH official channels to the documentation and so far delivered. The following is the implementation of administrative procedures the study in both countries and the issuance of the decision", stressed they are.

Igor Pejic, Secretary of the Ministry of Transport and Communications, said that the mentioned documents are submitted to the Ministry of Transport and Communications at the beginning of the month, as soon as he arrived from Zagreb, but that still did not get back a document from Banja Luka.

"Every day, literally expect us to return the document to be able to issue a building permit and that as quickly as possible in the further proceedings. Why do we still have not received it, I do not know. In any case I do not want to say that anyone stalling, stalling or cottage. But maybe it could be a little faster, "he said, adding that a similar document for the bridge near Svilaj from the Federal Ministry got in a day. "I asked on Friday to write an urgent letter to our colleagues in the RS, but my colleagues asked me to wait another day," he said and ruled out the possibility that the problem is on the Croatian side.

"We need to be honest with ourselves and recognize that these Croatia, metaphorically speaking, passed the buck to our side and now is up to us how we will promptly do our job. I want to say that I have received assurances of the European Commission that they are going to urge Croatia to hurry, but we must first do what is up to us to be able to seek help from Brussels, "he says.

Dusan Topic, director of "Highways RS", said the delay in connection with the construction of the bridge near Gradiska last for years. He is convinced that one is not in their interest to build that bridge and that, therefore, constantly invent new obstacles.

"The whole procedure was slow in Zagreb and Sarajevo. If it is so urgent, why, then, this study six months collecting dust in their drawers? Someone, it seems, did not want to start a procedure apparently with the intention to delay the application for funds. Unfortunately, imposes such an impression. I do not want to say that this was done in agreement, but it is quite clear about what this is and that its attitude towards this project, "she says.

He points out that now there is a risk that the RS lost the grant of 6.8 million euros from the EU. "If it was the desire and the will to do it, all this could make it. I do not see a single reason why the tender could be announced by the end of the year with the approval and support of European Commission Delegation and European banks," concluded Topic.

He points out that the ratio of Sarajevo toward the RS the last few months shows "that are stopped and much less important things." "Around this bridge, the same story is repeated but almost more than ten years - a lack of communication, lack of desire to do a story on the peninsula, which is also clearly play a significant role in all of this," she says.
/by Google traslate/

https://translate.googleusercontent....VeaIZ-h8vjXtVw
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Old July 27th, 2016, 01:28 AM   #6188
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You don't need Split as a commercial port, Croats don't need the Gradiska bridge. As simple as that!
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Old July 27th, 2016, 01:42 AM   #6189
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I'm surprised at this rhetoric considering all accusations of Slovenia blocking motorways to Croatia. A motorway between Gradiška and A3 would certainly make sense to connect Zagreb and Banja Luka.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 02:39 AM   #6190
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You don't need Split as a commercial port, Croats don't need the Gradiska bridge. As simple as that!
Nothing worse than a self-hating Serb.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 03:13 AM   #6191
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The most important thing would be to finish Bosnian A1 as soon as possible, Croatia needs to get the missing parts of A5 done and Hungary needs to finish their M6 to the border. With the entire motorway from Budapest to Ploče via Osijek, Doboj, Zenica, Sarajevo and Mostar, tourists from Poland or Slovakia could use this motorway as an alternative to Croatian A1 if they travel further down south.
Problem is, there's still a lot missing on that route before it becomes a realistic alternative to the A2/A3/A1 route to the seaside through Croatia.

- Poland is missing considerable parts of the S69/S1, especially from Tychy to Bielsko-Biała
- Slovakia is missing almost the complete route from Zilina to the Hungarian border
- Hungary is missing most of the M2 to Budapest

Remember that the Croatian A1 is pretty much empty most of the year. I drove there a few years ago at the start of May and it was remarkable how quiet it was, both on Saturdays and on normal days.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 04:18 AM   #6192
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The real thing, for those tourists, will be the E-661, when/if becomes a reality. That's the shortest connection between Vienna and Banja Luka. After Banja Luka, there will be a highway via Mrkonjić Grad to Livno (for central Dalmatia), and expressway Banja Luka via Jajce i Travnik to Sarajevo, for southern Jadran.

But, Hungarians will not work on this route nothing before year 2027. (at best), and Croats will not work on this route ever.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 07:38 PM   #6193
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I'm surprised at this rhetoric considering all accusations of Slovenia blocking motorways to Croatia. A motorway between Gradiška and A3 would certainly make sense to connect Zagreb and Banja Luka.
the difference is much larger. also, Sarajevo is more important to connect to motorway network than Banja Luka.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 07:59 PM   #6194
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If you're talking about A5, it's already built, isn't it? You're just waiting to finish the bridge over Sava. I would build a motorway to Gradiška ASAP, because it's short and Banja Luka is close (but first I would widen the A2 by Krapina ).
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Old July 27th, 2016, 08:12 PM   #6195
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neah, this shit near Krapina has never accumulated some congestions. and if you would have had such class of road at Slovenian side in last 10 years, no any discussions about it would ever occure.

also, as long as Banjalukians will be so sure into importance of Port of Koper, despite longer and more expensive ways to reach it than other accessible ports, they will have to accept those 8 km of state road.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 08:32 PM   #6196
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the difference is much larger. also, Sarajevo is more important to connect to motorway network than Banja Luka.
Bosnian A1 are 150 km away from Croatian border right now. Thats 15 years, at least, before completing BiH section of Corridor 5c north from Sarajevo. But, from next year, without highway will be only 90km, between Zenica and Doboj, of 420km long route Sarajevo - Zagreb.

Also, Gradiška is one of two BiH border crossings, and only northern border crossing, with EU where is export of products of plant and animal origin are allowed into EU. Croatia are signed those agreements. Etc.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 08:53 PM   #6197
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true, but what with last 20 years when Croatia had good access to modern border crossing, while at the same time at BIH side was road congested with local traffic with 60 km/h limit and border crossing with horribly limited capacity?
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Old July 28th, 2016, 09:25 PM   #6198
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I don't follow you here, what last 20 years with horrible traffic and what border crossing? Are we still talking about Gradiška?
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Old July 28th, 2016, 11:02 PM   #6199
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yes.
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Old July 29th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #6200
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As a side observer, in my opinion Croatia has the obligation to pay off the construction of A1 first rather than to divert the traffic through Banja Luka by taking part into the construction of the bridge at Gradiska. Indeed this route is around 25km less from Zagreb to Makarska passing through BL and Livno but simply the time has not come yet. It has nothing to do with the willigness or unwillingness of the Croats to connect faster with Banja Luka and consequently other places further south in BiH in which they do have interest, but it is a matter of logical decisions. When the authorities in BiH agree to make the corridor and it really gets shaped from Banja Luka to Livno for example, it will make sense from Croatia point of view for the corresponding bridge. Also BiH has to join EU to avoid wating time on the borders.
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