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Old November 16th, 2016, 05:37 PM   #6321
roaddor
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The finance should definitely come from EU (at least 85% of it). Same should be applied for the section in Slovenia. Afterall this will be one day a route of international importance.
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Old November 16th, 2016, 09:21 PM   #6322
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Quote:
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The finance should definitely come from EU (at least 85% of it). Same should be applied for the section in Slovenia. Afterall this will be one day a route of international importance.
Maybe to Albania. I dont think it will ever compete with A3 in importance of international traffic. A3 connects Turkey and Greece perfectly on this route.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 12:15 PM   #6323
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Maybe to Albania. I dont think it will ever compete with A3 in importance of international traffic. A3 connects Turkey and Greece perfectly on this route.
A3 in Croatia towards Turkey, definitely yes, but towards Western Greece I wouldn't say so. Indeed there is still some mountainous terrain to be overcomed and this makes the travelling time shorter through A3 now, nevertheless the distance is much longer. And when the Greeks complete their A3, the Ionian-Adriatic motorway (more correctly the Adriatic part north of Tirana) will be a very desirable choice from Athens and even Volos on the Aegean sea.
Generally speaking, each motorway close to a sea justifies its existence.

Last edited by roaddor; November 18th, 2016 at 12:40 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 02:57 PM   #6324
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The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is more of a tourist road.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 06:47 PM   #6325
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One day in the future when fully completed, the motorway could turn into something more than a tourist road. It has the prerequisites for carrying not only seasonal traffic.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 03:19 PM   #6326
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As every country has its own priorities i think the money and network plan should come from EU, yes. Denmark pays for Fehmarnbelt alone, but there is no such extra money in the balkans.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 04:22 PM   #6327
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One day in the future when fully completed, the motorway could turn into something more than a tourist road. It has the prerequisites for carrying not only seasonal traffic.
It seems that only Croats don't understand it.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 05:20 PM   #6328
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As every country has its own priorities i think the money and network plan should come from EU, yes. Denmark pays for Fehmarnbelt alone, but there is no such extra money in the balkans.
And Germany?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 05:28 PM   #6329
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The tunnel itself is financed by Denmark. The connecting infrastructure on the German side is of course paid by Germany.

There is some discontent in Western Europe about all those countries receiving so much EU financing for motorways while many projects in Western Europe stall for decades due to the lack of funding.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:11 PM   #6330
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There is some discontent in Western Europe about all those countries receiving so much EU financing for motorways while many projects in Western Europe stall for decades due to the lack of funding.
Structural EU funds are meant to help the poorest regions of EU.
Before 2004 the biggest receivers were Greece, Portugal and some rural areas of Italy and Spain, after 2004 of course they were surpassed by former communist countries.
Unfortunately, some countries are known for misusing EU funds, due to the widespread corruption.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:21 PM   #6331
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Public support for the EU would increase in Western Europe if they would fund more than just some marginal planning cost which may be 1 or 2% of the project cost. Right now it just transfers all road funding to the east.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 07:06 PM   #6332
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Public support for the EU would increase in Western Europe if they would fund more than just some marginal planning cost which may be 1 or 2% of the project cost. Right now it just transfers all road funding to the east.
It's not just road funds, but many kinds of EU structural funds, that cover the most diverse aspects of development, from agriculture to energy, from scientific research to fishery.
Concerning infrastructure (not just roads infrastructures) financing, EU money are meant to finance infrastructures belonging to the Trans-European Transport Networks (not to be confused with International E-road network or Pan-European corridors, both related with UNECE and not EU).

Yes, I think EU funds should be mostly used to finance projects of real international relevance, many new members are using them for more domestic matters.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 07:13 PM   #6333
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Well, I don't mind EU financing being used in Eastern or Southern Europe to support economic development and general progress, but it's just sad how a prime European connection like the Fehmarn Belt Tunnel only gets a few percent funding, compared to Eastern Europe where motorways of mostly domestic importance get up to 85% funding.

In the Netherlands, road projects are mostly prioritized for its congestion factor. That means that some regions are severely underfunded because they always end up having the lowest priority (read: no funding in the forseeable future). This is where the EU could fund projects in Western Europe as well, to support road safety and regional development. And it doesn't need to be hundreds of millions or even billions per year.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 07:25 PM   #6334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The tunnel itself is financed by Denmark. The connecting infrastructure on the German side is of course paid by Germany.
Are you sure about that?
The €8.7bn (£6bn; $9.6bn) Fehmarn Belt project will get €589m of EU funding.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33633879
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 07:28 PM   #6335
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That's only 6.7% EU funding. I'm not arguing the Fehmarn Belt Link should also get 85% EU funding, but a larger chunk of co-financing, to reduce the extremely high tolls (said to be around € 65 each way) would be appropriate for a project that's an ultimate example of how to connect Europe.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 08:21 PM   #6336
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I find amusing that is almost entirely financed by Denmark, since also Germany benefits of it. I though it was around fifty-fifty.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old November 23rd, 2016, 09:14 AM   #6337
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Wrong thread guys. Unfortunately, Croatia must pay loans for all its highway network by itself. Despite that, I can`t see EU running to finance rest of croatian Adriatic-Ionian part.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 03:36 PM   #6338
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A7 around Rijeka is an expressway, not a motorway.
The gap between Trieste and Rijeka is a big problem in the region and will remain for a while (forever?), as Slovenia has no interest in building this motorway. There are some discussions abut an hypotetical Postojna-Rijeka motorway, but Trieste-Rijeka nothing.
I think a such project must necessarly be heavily founded by EU in order to be viable.
It would have been cool if Italy had opened an 1+1 expressway (like Autostrada dei Laghi and some other of that period) between Trieste and Fiume in the interbellum period. Now it would have been more easy to expand it to a full-standards motorway, and even an 1+1 expressway would be more than the current Highway 7 through villages.
Slovenia has no interest to connect Triest and Rijeka. Furthermore, it's also about connecting Ljubljana-Postojna and Rijeka. This doesn't interest them either, because some truck traffic could choose the port of Rijeka.
In my opinion the connection from the border crossing Rupa/Jelšane to I/C Gabrk is the shortest and the best for Croats (red and pink in the picture below). The map is an old Slovenian one, but still actual I think. However, years ago I heard that the mayor Illy of Triest supported the construction. Now it seems that the political will is lacking even on the Italian side.
I support also the Y solution (one branch to Triest/Gabrk and one to Postojna). The worst is the yellow solution, down in the middle.

Last edited by Seagull; November 24th, 2016 at 03:46 PM.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:52 AM   #6339
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It doesn't interest us since the whole project Jelšane - A1 is not a feasible project. It would be a burdon, like A4. EU gave 25% for the A4 but the darn thing still isn't bankable. Such a waste of DARS money and people's lifes. On the other hand the local projects with much more traffic are put on hold. Such a shame.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #6340
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Between Rijeka and Postojna on the Slovenian side, there is no more highway in plan! Only new high-speed road(1+1), with the option of upgrading in the future, depending on the amount of traffic.

Last edited by Solčavec; November 26th, 2016 at 12:47 PM.
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