Chicago Retail and Restaurant Thread

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

I have a question for you trvlr70 and other forumers. Do you think Chicago's winters will prevent it from attracting more young talent,commerce and tourist? I'd like edsg25 and Steeley's opinion also.

if you ignore climate fiction and look at climate reality, Chicago and New York have quite similiar winters. I don't see many young talented people, those heavily involved in commerce, and tourists steering clear of Manhattan.

Then again, with all the growth in the southwest and west, I don't see a brutal summer climate scaring people away from Florida, Houston, Phoenix, Vegas, etc.

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

I have a question for you trvlr70 and other forumers. Do you think Chicago's winters will prevent it from attracting more young talent,commerce and tourist? I'd like edsg25 and Steeley's opinion also.

Unfortuneately, I do think winters are a big deterrent. Look at population migration in the US. People are overwhelmingly moving in a general South by Southwest direction. As people's lives become increasingly mobile, more people will eventually move to more pleasant climates.

Chicago has a harsh climate. It is not only cold, but dark becasue of the city's position withing the Central Standard Time zone band.

[NOLAUSA]

Yes, I agree with you that climate is a huge factor when one determines where to live, visit, study etcetera. Many people love Chicago but find the winters just a bit too harsh. Is it something that will kill a city, I doubt it. But perhaps Chicago will be a city that will benefit immensely if drinking water becomes a problem in the southwest.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by NOLAUSA

Yes, I agree with you that climate is a huge factor when one determines where to live, visit, study etcetera. Many people love Chicago but find the winters just a bit too harsh. Is it something that will kill a city, I doubt it. But perhaps Chicago will be a city that will benefit immensely if drinking water becomes a problem in the southwest.

that would take a helluva lot of drinking water to even begin to quench the thirsts of places like phoenix and las vegas, whose summers are far harsher than chicago's winters!

again, reality check time:

• nobody who can get through a, let's say, New York will have any problem getting through a Chicago winter

• Chicago's climate just isn't that extreme; it is just fun for the national media to pretend this is so. The Midwest is continental in climate, but still very similiar to the northeast corridor. nobody is suggesting that that region is a deterent due to weather

• Chicago lacks the extreme humidity with high constant heat of the deep south and the unbelievably hot (if dry) southwest. Where did we ever get the idea that winters are necessarily harsher than summers?

• Last I checked, this isn't exactly the Arctic or the Amazon.

[trvlr70]

I lived in both Chicago and Boston. Chicago's continental climate is more severe than that of the coastal Northeast, save perhaps northern New England. The difference is not huge, but it's perceptible. You can sort of tell things are different by the time of year things begin to bloom and when leaves typically fall. The moderating effect of the Atlantic is much greater than that of the Great Lakes.

[pottebaum]

Wow, that's great about the Carson's building. I'm getting kind of bored of Whole Foods, though.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by edsg25

no argument there, but the existing Jewel, Dominick, and TI super markets in the downtown area all provide parking. It is unlikely that people doing major shopping are going to walk to take public tansit. My assumption is that Whole Foods success is based on serving people other than those on Michigan, Wabash, and State. Without a car, that would be a most difficult task.

I'm basing it on the exact opposite, I think the success will be based on the people actually moving into the Loop, not the people that live in River North, River West, or even really the South loop. I'm sure that when/if they decide to open at that location the research will support something similar.

SSDD

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by trvlr70

I lived in both Chicago and Boston. Chicago's continental climate is more severe than that of the coastal Northeast, save perhaps northern New England. The difference is not huge, but it's perceptible. You can sort of tell things are different by the time of year things begin to bloom and when leaves typically fall. The moderating effect of the Atlantic is much greater than that of the Great Lakes.

February has been our toughest month; the winter earlier was very mild. in fact, so many of our winters have been. it's been years since brutal winter weather. i realize that can be a negative (global warming), but it sure did alter our winters.

[NOLAUSA]

Im not sure that most people have problems with hot summers as they do cold winters. Also, the Northeast isnt growing that quickly anymore. Save for some growth in DC and NYC. In gerneral that region isnt growing fast like other areas of the country. Cold winters isnt the only thing that matters, but a cities weather is a factor.

[Sir Isaac Newton]

Originally Posted by NOLAUSA

Im not sure that most people have problems with hot summers as they do cold winters. Also, the Northeast isnt growing that quickly anymore. Save for some growth in DC and NYC. In gerneral that region isnt growing fast like other areas of the country. Cold winters isnt the only thing that matters, but a cities weather is a factor.

Cold winters is a factor, but it's certainly not a major factor. It definitely does impact a lot of retired people's decision as to where to live. Many retired people have places (or live full-time) in Florida, and now in the Southwest as well, for the warmer weather

While the trend has more people moving to warmer places recently, I don't think cold winters hampers a city. The most populated area in the US, by far, is the Northeast coast, extending from DC up to Boston. This area is definitely colder compared to the US temperature on average.

[spyguy]

Originally Posted by pottebaum

I'm getting kind of bored of Whole Foods, though.

I guess it wasn't meant to be.

[Loopy]

..

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by edsg25

no argument there, but the existing Jewel, Dominick, and TI super markets in the downtown area all provide parking. It is unlikely that people doing major shopping are going to walk to take public tansit. My assumption is that Whole Foods success is based on serving people other than those on Michigan, Wabash, and State. Without a car, that would be a most difficult task.

I think this is a very suburban out look. Have you kept up with how many people live and will live within a few blocks? What about picnicing in the summer...baby I am stopping by before I go to Grant Park. What about tens of thousands of shoppers who shop State street? What about all the office workers...look how many fricken CVS, Walgreens we have downtown...50,000 students go to class around there.....without parking. It is going to be beautiful...no parking!!!

[The Urban Politician]

Originally Posted by Chicago3rd

I think this is a very suburban out look. Have you kept up with how many people live and will live within a few blocks? What about picnicing in the summer...baby I am stopping by before I go to Grant Park. What about tens of thousands of shoppers who shop State street? What about all the office workers...look how many fricken CVS, Walgreens we have downtown...50,000 students go to class around there.....without parking. It is going to be beautiful...no parking!!!

^ I second that.

With all due respect, Ed, I question whether you've ever lived in an urban environment. I'm guessing not, since you seem to have this paradigm that nothing is successful without parking. A lot of things are successful without parking, but I'd imagine that living in a suburban environment one would find that hard to believe.

This is by all means not meant to be an attack or criticism, by the way. Just a perspective from someone who has lived in both types of environments.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by The Urban Politician

^ I second that.

With all due respect, Ed, I question whether you've ever lived in an urban environment. I'm guessing not, since you seem to have this paradigm that nothing is successful without parking. A lot of things are successful without parking, but I'd imagine that living in a suburban environment one would find that hard to believe.

This is by all means not meant to be an attack or criticism, by the way. Just a perspective from someone who has lived in both types of environments.

i have lived in urban chicago. and like it. and considering that jewel, dominick, and treasure island stores not in the city, but in the heart of the city, in the general downtown area have parking lots...from TI on the Clybourn Corridor to Dominick's in Greektown to TI in the Furniture Mart and Jewel on Division over to Dominick's on Roosevelt Rd and Jewel on Roosevelt and Wabash, how come you are questioning my degree of "urbanness"?

Downtown Chicago and environs are awash in new town houses with two car garage. There are single family homes that have been built with over 6000 sq ft of space. some city mc mansions now take up virtually whole blocks.

for better or worse (and it very well may be worse), there is a lot of money in DT Chgo made up of people who want to see what very well may be more suited to open space in suburbia.

I didn't create that situation.

[Sir Isaac Newton]

Downtown Chicago and environs are awash in new town houses with two car garage. There are single family homes that have been built with over 6000 sq ft of space. some city mc mansions now take up virtually whole blocks.

for better or worse (and it very well may be worse), there is a lot of money in DT Chgo made up of people who want to see what very well may be more suited to open space in suburbia.

You got to be kidding me. The number of people who live in town houses comprise an extremely small percentage of the overall downtown population in Chicago.
I didn't create that situation.[/QUOTE]

[The Urban Politician]

Originally Posted by edsg25

i have lived in urban chicago. and like it. and considering that jewel, dominick, and treasure island stores not in the city, but in the heart of the city, in the general downtown area have parking lots...from TI on the Clybourn Corridor to Dominick's in Greektown to TI in the Furniture Mart and Jewel on Division over to Dominick's on Roosevelt Rd and Jewel on Roosevelt and Wabash, how come you are questioning my degree of "urbanness"?

Downtown Chicago and environs are awash in new town houses with two car garage. There are single family homes that have been built with over 6000 sq ft of space. some city mc mansions now take up virtually whole blocks.

for better or worse (and it very well may be worse), there is a lot of money in DT Chgo made up of people who want to see what very well may be more suited to open space in suburbia.

I didn't create that situation.

^ Yet you haven't refuted my point. There is no reason to believe that a business located downtown that does not have parking will somehow fail miserably. I think everybody's in panic mode these days in Chicago, and if one's neighbor has parking then I must have parking or I'll lose business to my competitor and there goes the domino effect. But I have yet to see how lack of success can EVER be attributable to lack of parking, at least downtown. All of this parking is wasted space--eventually people will realize that and these garages/lots will be redeveloped into something more productive.

I've heard, by the way, that the garage in Whole Foods in River North sits nearly empty all day.

[svs]

[QUOTE=The Urban Politician;11866726
I've heard, by the way, that the garage in Whole Foods in River North sits nearly empty all day.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip. I've always been pissed off at the costs of parking downtown when I visit Chicago. I will try this, the next time I am in town.

[brewcityfan]

Not to change subject, but I thought American Girl was locating at Water Tower Place, with possibly a Best Buy......

[trvlr70]

Originally Posted by brewcityfan

Not to change subject, but I thought American Girl was locating at Water Tower Place, with possibly a Best Buy......

True: American Girl is interested in the former Lord & Taylor space in WTP.
True: Best Buy is interested in a downtown location, but it appears to the approximate space the Room & Board occupied in Chicago Place.
False: Target is going into WTP.