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Old December 30th, 2009, 06:08 PM   #721
treichard
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Thanks ea1969 for the reference posts. They are helpful and answered some of my questions. I'm going to naively ignore your last warning for just a moment. Chris, I found the same mismatch of the route numbers in my web searching, too.

Is the official numbering system available online? I saw in an earlier post that ea1969 had found an official source where some of the 3-digit route numbers weren't legible, but I didn't spot a link and couldn't find it in my own searching. The only Greek I know is Google-Translate-Greek.

On motorway overlaps like A1/A2 and A2/A25, are both routes signed continuously?

In the A8/A8A case, is it that the twinned sections are supposed to be A8 and the single-carriageway sections EO8a? Same question about A90/EO90?

My 2007 Frommers Europe atlas shows exit numbers 1-61 for A2, without any suffixes. I wonder if there was a plan to renumber those exits and Frommers expected it to be done, but then the A2 motorway company decided not to bother "fixing" them and left the 1-43 + suffixes system in place. Frommers' exit numbers for other A routes match what I found on the Motorway Exits and German Wikipedia sites (whose source for the numbers isn't noted), so it's odd that they got just A2's wrong.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A11 is a branch of A1 near Chaldiki. It was completed somewhere late 2009, you can see it U/C in Google Earth.
Its not Chaldiki, its Chalkida Chris
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Old December 30th, 2009, 11:58 PM   #723
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I'm going to naively ignore your last warning for just a moment.

Unfortunately, I would insist to my point. Anyway, except on motorways you may find only extremely limited signs bearing road numbers (and in some cases they are wrong)!

Is the official numbering system available online? I saw in an earlier post that ea1969 had found an official source where some of the 3-digit route numbers weren't legible, but I didn't spot a link and couldn't find it in my own searching.

Unfortunately the link is in Greek only (available at www.ggde.gr), but please note that somehow the January 2009 decision file is a corrupted file! Anyway, I’ve got the map on a jpg. format, but it is of a very bad quality and I am not 100% sure for the 3-digit numbers either (only A642 is signed anyway). This is a decision about current and future motorways only and anyone interested may send me a pm with an e-mail address and I will send it, although I doubt if you can read it. The national road numbering system – dated from 1963 – is shown almost correctly on the German Wikipedia. Since it was published, only a handful of new numbers have been assigned (8a, 9a, 10, 73). The system is well outdated with some main roads or new sections having no numbers and some other useless roads having numbers (these lead to military airfields – some of them are almost unused nowadays, some archaelogical sites and in a case in a monastery!). But as I have said there are almost no road numbers on signs outside motorways so no problem. If you ask an average Greek driver to tell you which is national road 5, in 90%+ of the cases the answer will be “I do not know”.

On motorway overlaps like A1/A2 and A2/A25, are both routes signed continuously?

On the case of A1/A2, yes. Up to now A25 is signed only north from the A2. The Eastern Ring of Thessaloniki and the route to Moudania are signed with blue (non-motorway) signs with no road numbers of course.

In the A8/A8A case, is it that the twinned sections are supposed to be A8 and the single-carriageway sections EO8a? Same question about A90/EO90?

On the A8 case you see 8 on a motorway numbering shield in one exit and then 8A in the next one (according to the regulations it should be A8 – motorway signing regulations can be found at http://library.tee.gr/digital/books_...4_contents.htm – in Greek but the diagrams are of great help). As I said before they have mixed the motorway number with the road that progressively is upgraded. There should be no 8A on a motorway numbering shield. Along the A90/EO90 you see some green motorway signs with number 90 (not A90 as it should be) and of course no numbers on sections signed in blue.

My 2007 Frommers Europe atlas shows exit numbers 1-61 for A2, without any suffixes. I wonder if there was a plan to renumber those exits and Frommers expected it to be done, but then the A2 motorway company decided not to bother "fixing" them and left the 1-43 + suffixes system in place. Frommers' exit numbers for other A routes match what I found on the Motorway Exits and German Wikipedia sites (whose source for the numbers isn't noted), so it's odd that they got just A2's wrong.

The company responsible for the construction and maintenance of Egnatia Odos (A2) say that for the moment they will go on with the “1-43 plus suffixes” (silly) system. And I say silly as the motorway was built from nothing so they could have numbered the potential exits correctly and not addind suffixes. Also numbers on the A6, A62, A64, A65 and A642 are correct (and signed) as shown on the motorways-exitlists site, while those on the A7, A8 and A71 have been assigned but have not put in signs yet.

I hope that this may clarify the unclarified!
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Old December 31st, 2009, 01:18 AM   #724
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ea1969, they have installed a new sign after the Artemisio tunnel showing A7 but without E-Routes number
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Old December 31st, 2009, 10:21 AM   #725
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When will be ready the whole motorway Thessaloniki-Seres-Promahon? The southern part till the top of the mountain between Thess/niki and Seres is already in use, as well the last 10 km to the Bulgarian border. But the bridge over Strimon River, the knot near Seres and the link Seres-Siderocastro are far from completion.
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Old December 31st, 2009, 10:36 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ea1969 View Post
On the A8 case you see 8 on a motorway numbering shield in one exit and then 8A in the next one (according to the regulations it should be A8 – motorway signing regulations can be found at http://library.tee.gr/digital/books_...4_contents.htm – in Greek but the diagrams are of great help). As I said before they have mixed the motorway number with the road that progressively is upgraded. There should be no 8A on a motorway numbering shield. Along the A90/EO90 you see some green motorway signs with number 90 (not A90 as it should be) and of course no numbers on sections signed in blue.
Yes, you clarified what I was asking about (thanks!), except for one part. I've been researching the present state of motorways in many European countries, and Greece has been one of the toughest to learn some details about.

Let me rephrase my earlier question:

Suppose that today I am driving on a motorway-standard part of the main highway between Athina and Patra, then I continue onto a substandard, two-lane, one-carriageway section of that highway, and soon I'll reach the next section, which is motorway standard. Ignoring any signs that may or may not have mistakes on them, when I'm driving on that substandard one-carriageway section, am I driving on what is officially called A8 or EO8a?

And is the answer the same for A90/EO90 and other highways that have substandard sections between motorway-standard sections?
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Last edited by treichard; December 31st, 2009 at 10:42 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2009, 10:47 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treichard View Post
Suppose that today I am driving on a motorway-standard part of the main highway between Athina and Patra, then I continue onto a substandard, two-lane, one-carriageway section of that highway, and soon I'll reach the next section, which is motorway standard. Ignoring any signs that may or may not have mistakes on them, when I'm driving on that substandard one-carriageway section, am I driving on what is officially called A8 or EO8a?

And is the answer the same for A90/EO90 and other highways that have substandard sections between motorway-standard sections?
If I have understood the question well, the answer is that the Elefsina (20km west of Athens) to Korinthos section (A7/A8 interchange) is a motorway (A8). The rest up to Patra is still signed (and is also legally considered) as an expressway (EO8a - by "expressway" I mean Motor Road, Autostrasse, Voie rapide, Superstrada etc.). However I expect that when the upgraded sections come to existence that will change into A8 too.

For A90/EO90, I know that legally the Kastelli Kissamou (at the west end of the axis) to Gouves (east of Irakleio) section is considered legally as motorway A90, but only sections between Hania and Rethymno are signed in green (I am not 100% sure however, so any help from the people of Crete is welcome), while the rest is EO90. In fact the Agios Nikolaos to Siteia section will not be upgraded to motorway standard.

Have a happy new year!!!
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Old January 1st, 2010, 12:22 PM   #728
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Quote:
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Thank you very much !

There is something like a castle on the 6th photo.... What is it there on the left mountain?
Yes, it is the medieval castle of Korinthos (Akrokorinthos).
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 08:21 PM   #729
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Are there any news about E-65 highway? I know there are few construction sites along the route. Is there an official high quality map? There's no official website though. Strange
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 05:27 PM   #730
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Are there any news about E-65 highway? I know there are few construction sites along the route. Is there an official high quality map? There's no official website though. Strange
First of all, let's explain the E65 designation. As we know at the moment, E65 runs from Kozani to Lamia via Larisa and Farsala. However, the Geneva Convention that regulates E-roads, states that these may be rerouted if a better quality road is constructed. In the case of the A3, when it is completed the E65 will be rerouted from Kozani to Panagia (A2, in common route with the E90) and then follow the A3 to Lamia (via Trikala and Karditsa, in common route to the E92 up to Trikala).

There are some construction sites near Kalampaka, between Trikala and Karditsa and near Domokos as well as some preliminary works at the future interchange with the A1/E75 south of Lamia. I think that construction runs on a slow pace.

It seems that there is no official site and a good quality map at the moment.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #731
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This is the latest video from A2 (Egnatia) uploaded on youtube:



More than 6 bln euros were spent on a motorway that is almost empty.
I’d rather see that money spent on Athens metro than on a road that serves mainly Turkish and Bulgarian truck drivers.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #732
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what does that sign right after the tunnel with a car and a red slash mean??
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #733
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€ 8.8 million per km. That's not expensive at all considering the number of bridges and tunnels. Also, it took over 10 years to complete this motorway, which breaks it down to about € 600 million per year of investment. This is significant, but not mind-boggling. Also, most of the funding was covered by EU funds.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #734
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Quote:
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what does that sign right after the tunnel with a car and a red slash mean??
I'd guess sth like "you may now switch the lights off"... There is the one without red slash before tunnel as well, that might be saying "turn the lights on"...
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:33 PM   #735
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actually, 6.5-9.5 million € is the average price of motorways in Denmark withput bridges and tunnels. I would say that's rather inexpensive
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:39 PM   #736
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The point is that all that money could have been spent on more useful roads and railways. The whole idea behind Egnatia was that Greece could become a transport hub in the Balkans, i.e. trucks from neighboring countries would reach Western Europe through Greece. Truly developed countries, such as Switzerland and Austria, do whatever they can to keep foreign trucks away from their roads. Greece did just the opposite. The result is that we have a super motorway in areas where it is not needed, while the road between Athens and Salonica is not a complete motorway yet.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:57 PM   #737
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Trying to stop truck traffic is like trying to limit economic growth. And it's not like the reduction of trucks in Switzerland and Austria is a big success, they only increase transportation costs, and nobody gets better with that (except for the government).

One of the main issues in the European union is regional development. They did a good job in Spain building dozens of Autovías which were economically not completely necessary, but it prevents the countryside from running empty.

A good infrastructure is a foundation for minimum service levels, like medical infrastructure, schools, shops, civic services etcetera. Before the construction of A2, northern Greece was only accessible via long-distance national roads that run through mountainous areas and have high accident rates. The construction of this motorway will strengthen regional towns along the motorway and their surrounding rural areas.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #738
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You seem to know Greece very well. The problem is that in Northern Greece there is only 1 city with a notable population, namely Salonica. All other towns have less than 100.000 inhabitants. How many European countries have a 4-lane motorway linking a series of towns of 50 or 70 k?
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:22 PM   #739
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all western european countries.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #740
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Yeah, in the Netherlands, there is no city over 40,000 without a motorway connection. Some cities and town in Spain are even significantly smaller with a motorway connection.
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