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Old July 30th, 2007, 05:54 PM   #201
ChrisZwolle
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Really sad, there was some news about the Rospuda valley highway construction on a Dutch site, and the comments where about to cry.

Lot's of people says stuff like; "kick that 3rd world country of the EU", "why do they need motorways, there aren't even cars in Poland!", "Kick all Polish people out of the Netherlands" etc etc.

Really too bad. I don't know why exactly, but there is an extremely negative atmosphere against Poland here
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Old July 30th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #202
fredru$
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Reconstruction and upgrading of scenic stretch of the DK7(national road) to the "S" standard(expressway), between Krakow and famous, moutainious resort - Zakopane (cir. 100km south of Krakow)



Photos by Kronos KBC
Stretch past Myślenice:














































Town of Stróża



























from Stróża to Krakowa direction

































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Śląsk zawsze w siłę rósł tu, z wiernym sobie Wrocławiem.
Polska nie zawsze tu była, lecz na zawsze zostanie.
...........................................................fredru$
Übersetzung / translation:
Schlesien wuchs hier immer in Macht und Kraft, mit dem ihm treuen Breslau.
Polen war nicht immer da, bleibt aber schon für immer.

Silesia always grew in strength here with faithful to her Wroclaw. Poland not always was here, but will stay here forever.

Last edited by fredru$; July 30th, 2007 at 11:06 PM.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Really sad, there was some news about the Rospuda valley highway construction on a Dutch site, and the comments where about to cry.

Lot's of people says stuff like; "kick that 3rd world country of the EU", "why do they need motorways, there aren't even cars in Poland!", "Kick all Polish people out of the Netherlands" etc etc.

Really too bad. I don't know why exactly, but there is an extremely negative atmosphere against Poland here
Weird since in Poland there isn't much published about the Netherlands. It's usually about drugs or euthanasia and that's about it.

I would respond by saying that in order not to be a "3rd world" country Poland needs highways for accomodating traffic and spurring investments. We need to catch up after 50+ years of communist fiasco of managed economy that basically ruined Poland.

As far as "kicking Polish people out of Netherlands" I am not sure how this plays into the argument but it could be very dangerous. It doesn't take much to fan the flame in Poland and the Dutch farmers living and working in Poland could quickly be on the receiving end of it.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 06:26 PM   #204
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More of the same projekt



































They just opened this section















Town of Lubień

















Kraków direction







Zakopane direction













.
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Śląsk zawsze w siłę rósł tu, z wiernym sobie Wrocławiem.
Polska nie zawsze tu była, lecz na zawsze zostanie.
...........................................................fredru$
Übersetzung / translation:
Schlesien wuchs hier immer in Macht und Kraft, mit dem ihm treuen Breslau.
Polen war nicht immer da, bleibt aber schon für immer.

Silesia always grew in strength here with faithful to her Wroclaw. Poland not always was here, but will stay here forever.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 07:58 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Really sad, there was some news about the Rospuda valley highway construction on a Dutch site, and the comments where about to cry.

Lot's of people says stuff like; "kick that 3rd world country of the EU", "why do they need motorways, there aren't even cars in Poland!", "Kick all Polish people out of the Netherlands" etc etc.

Really too bad. I don't know why exactly, but there is an extremely negative atmosphere against Poland here

The reasons might be attitude of polish goverment run by The Kaczinski bros. , towards UE, and their poor diplomatic skills.



.
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Śląsk zawsze w siłę rósł tu, z wiernym sobie Wrocławiem.
Polska nie zawsze tu była, lecz na zawsze zostanie.
...........................................................fredru$
Übersetzung / translation:
Schlesien wuchs hier immer in Macht und Kraft, mit dem ihm treuen Breslau.
Polen war nicht immer da, bleibt aber schon für immer.

Silesia always grew in strength here with faithful to her Wroclaw. Poland not always was here, but will stay here forever.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 09:07 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredru$ View Post
[B]Reconstruction and upgrading of scenic stretch of the DK7(national road) to the "S" standard(expressway), between Krakow and famous, moutainious resort - Zakopane (cir. 100km south of Krakow)

Mota-Engil(portuguese company) is the constructor! Cool!
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Old July 30th, 2007, 10:19 PM   #207
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Mota-Engil(portuguese company) is the constructor! Cool!
Not really. They are one year behind schedule, over budget and one person died when a bridge under construction completely collapsed.

Management at this company needs a reality check.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 10:57 PM   #208
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Yea, Mota-Engil underbeted the competition, and later on cried, that the contract is unprofitable...


.
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Śląsk zawsze w siłę rósł tu, z wiernym sobie Wrocławiem.
Polska nie zawsze tu była, lecz na zawsze zostanie.
...........................................................fredru$
Übersetzung / translation:
Schlesien wuchs hier immer in Macht und Kraft, mit dem ihm treuen Breslau.
Polen war nicht immer da, bleibt aber schon für immer.

Silesia always grew in strength here with faithful to her Wroclaw. Poland not always was here, but will stay here forever.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 09:45 AM   #209
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Polish ppl in Western Europe = Mexicans in the USA.

Congrats, you guys have the same low wage worker issues that we have.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 12:48 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by AUchamps View Post
Polish ppl in Western Europe = Mexicans in the USA.
Not at all the same thing.

As for the negative comments mentioned, they're probably made mostly by 14-year-olds with no sense of how to behave. That said, the Kazcynskis are also behaving like immature teenagers, so any negative attitudes towards them is well deserved. They're ignoring a court ruling about the E-67 motorway just because they're stubborn. Motorways are a vital part of infrastructure, which is a vital part of the economy, and they need to be built, but not at any cost, and if the ECJ says the construction has to stop, it has to stop. That's what "the rule of law" is all about.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 01:21 PM   #211
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Peat bogs are very diverse in life and of course you should try to avoid building through them. Is the highway really needed?

About EU, its becoming more and more of a deciding powermachine, membercountries are risking their sovereignety, especially EMU members becouse their economy, inflation (by printing money from the central bank) and interest rates are even decided from central EMU and not the individual nations needs. EU should only be a cooperation for open borders for travel and eventually trade, and also a forum for discussion on other policies of common interest such as environmental. It should not have deciding power becouse the important decisions come further from the people and democratic circumstances are thus hurt.
This is not really the place for politics, but when a court whose decisions the Polish government has agreed to respect rules that the construction is unlawful, it should follow that ruling. It's called "the rule of law". Too many "rule"s in those last sentences, I know..

I agree that they should probably try to find an alternative route for it. This motorway is very important, but it can't be built at any cost.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 06:26 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by MaxxPower View Post
Not at all the same thing.

As for the negative comments mentioned, they're probably made mostly by 14-year-olds with no sense of how to behave. That said, the Kazcynskis are also behaving like immature teenagers, so any negative attitudes towards them is well deserved. They're ignoring a court ruling about the E-67 motorway just because they're stubborn. Motorways are a vital part of infrastructure, which is a vital part of the economy, and they need to be built, but not at any cost, and if the ECJ says the construction has to stop, it has to stop. That's what "the rule of law" is all about.
Elaborate. Both are prime examples of cheap labor that are willing to travel to areas where they may receive a slightly hostile response for "taking our jobs".
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Old July 31st, 2007, 06:45 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by fredru$ View Post
The reasons might be attitude of polish goverment run by The Kaczinski bros. , towards UE, and their poor diplomatic skills.[/B].
It has got nothing to do with Kaczynscy, If you asked a typical Dutchman who was a president of Poland, they even wouldn't know. All they know is their stereotypic opinion of Eastern Europeans. Regardless of the fact who is a president, their opinion would never change due to a lack of knowledge and prejudice. If you get into a conversation with well-educated Dutch person who has some constructive approach to the matter, you would easily notice that this opinion differs from other stereotypic, and as a matter of fact is much more objective and true without any sign of prejudice.

..and this is a reason why some boors are full of hatred towards other nations especially from Eastern Europe..
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Old July 31st, 2007, 06:51 PM   #214
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Well, the only news displayed about Poland in the Netherlands is per definition negative. People here really think mules are the main transportation mode in Poland. They also think Polish cities looks all grey and detoriated, and nobody speaks any language except Polish.

But then again, Eastern European stereotype of the Netherlands would be every women is a prostitute, and all men are on drugs...
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:02 PM   #215
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Elaborate. Both are prime examples of cheap labor that are willing to travel to areas where they may receive a slightly hostile response for "taking our jobs".
As far as I know most immigrants went to Britain because the British pound is very strong. Most went between the years of 2004 and 2006 when Poland recorded unemployment anywhere from 19 to 16%. So it was caused by 2 things - strong currency and lack of opportunities at home.

Things have changed. The unemployment in Poland at the end of this year will be 10% and considering that some people work on the black market never paying into the system the real unemployment will probably be around 8%.

Salaries in Poland have always been high compared to other CE countries. For the past two years they have soared. Today average salary is 1100$ per month and is expected to raise by another 10% by the end of the year. Take home pay is 800$ as taxes are low. That's half of EU salary, 60-70% of take home pay and considering PPP (purchasing power parity) about 65% of EU average wealth. So the gap isn't that great.

Most immigrants are very skilled, majority (90%) are under 35 years of age and hold university degrees (bachleros, masters or PHDs). Others are experts in their respective fields such as engineering or construction.

Even though something like 15 countries are open for legal employment I don't see many Poles opting for Sweden, Finland, Spain or other countries. Taxes are high, opportunities are scarce.

How does this relate to the Mexican example where Mexicans have been immigrating to the US steadily for over 40 years, majority of them are uneducated and come from areas where even basic services are not offered. Average salary there is 250$ and compared to the standard US salary is 10-15TIMES smaller.

The case of Poland is a typical brain drain. In 2 years time most of these students after acquiring new skills and some money will be back home. It's already happening. Meanwhile 2.5 million foreigners work in Poland and nobody has any problems with it.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:12 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Well, the only news displayed about Poland in the Netherlands is per definition negative. People here really think mules are the main transportation mode in Poland. They also think Polish cities looks all grey and detoriated, and nobody speaks any language except Polish.

But then again, Eastern European stereotype of the Netherlands would be every women is a prostitute, and all men are on drugs...
Very narrow minded thinking you have there in the Netherlands then....
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:20 PM   #217
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This is not really the place for politics, but when a court whose decisions the Polish government has agreed to respect rules that the construction is unlawful, it should follow that ruling. It's called "the rule of law". Too many "rule"s in those last sentences, I know..

I agree that they should probably try to find an alternative route for it. This motorway is very important, but it can't be built at any cost.
Well it's not really that simple. This highway project had been started before Poland joined the EU hence EU laws didn't apply back then. It takes years to make sure that all documentation is finished and land is secured before the actual construction can start.

In the meantime as the work on Via Baltica was progressing Poland joined the EU. Now should the EU laws apply or should they not ?

Anyway it's water under the bridge now anyway. Polish prime minister has just announced that the construction will not commence anytime soon.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:23 PM   #218
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Very narrow minded thinking you have there in the Netherlands then....
Just interesting to see that Europeans deal with the same baseline immigration issues that we do. Poles may be more educated then the Mexicans we get, but that doesn't make the stereotypes any different.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:38 PM   #219
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Is it hard to re-route it?
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>> Minneapolis | Manila | Cebu
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Old July 31st, 2007, 07:41 PM   #220
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Very narrow minded thinking you have there in the Netherlands then....
Nah it's just our leftist media.

I took this pic today of a Dutch news paper called NRC Next.
Some article about Poland in the Mazuria area (former Prussia).
And this is how they display Poland;
[IMG]http://i14.************/4t8g1gw.jpg[/IMG]
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