daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 27th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #2301
PLH
Moderator
 
PLH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Warszawa / Łódź
Posts: 11,841
Likes (Received): 2823

A2 Łódź - Warsaw bidding ANNOUNCED !!!
PLH no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 27th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #2302
snipe65
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by bebe.2006 View Post
Roads U/C:

by toonczyk & me



motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black
Would it be possible to display the total km of finished roads ?
snipe65 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #2303
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Great graphs. There should be some kind of temporary law that makes it much easier to build new roads very fast. That might work, but than there are still NIMBY's
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2009, 11:40 PM   #2304
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

The government creates the law themselves, also the long procedures. In my opinion, the period between the announcement and actual construction should be much shorter, only like 3 months for NIMBY's to make objections, and 3 months to deal with those.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2009, 11:55 PM   #2305
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
A2 Łódź - Warsaw bidding ANNOUNCED !!!
At last !!!

This road, even in Interbellum Period was seen as a priority in plans


Law ? I think we had introduced something like 'specustawa' what means specialistic act
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 12:22 AM   #2306
Jakub Warszauer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Milanówek
Posts: 4,248
Likes (Received): 548

Just for full information: the bidding is for "design & build" project. Which means, that even after choosing the best offer we will wait more than few months before real contruction begins. There are six bids: five for successive stretches + one for project managment and controlling.

The so called "Specustawa" (I hate that russian manner spreading in our language) deals only with administration-law obstacles, not enviromental regulations. The latter are even more difficult for our administration to fulfill.
Jakub Warszauer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 12:23 AM   #2307
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Does it mean the construction of the A2 is legally secured and cannot delayed any further?
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 12:29 AM   #2308
msz2
Registered User
 
msz2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kielce; Civitas Kielcensis; Poland; European Socialist Union
Posts: 4,175
Likes (Received): 57

S-7 form Kielce to Skarzysko (earth works):





__________________
"The European Union is doomed to failure because it is something crazy, utopian project, a monument of pride leftist intellectuals."
- Margaret Thatcher
msz2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 12:30 AM   #2309
Mateusz
Registered User
 
Mateusz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 6,536
Likes (Received): 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakub Warszauer View Post
Just for full information: the bidding is for "design & build" project. Which means, that even after choosing the best offer we will wait more than few months before real contruction begins. There are six bids: five for successive stretches + one for project managment and controlling.

The so called "Specustawa" (I hate that russian manner spreading in our language) deals only with administration-law obstacles, not enviromental regulations. The latter are even more difficult for our administration to fulfill.
I noticed that... but it seems like everyone was using the term specustawa on FPW ? What is a proper name for it ?
Mateusz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 02:09 AM   #2310
bebe.2006
Ekspert
 
bebe.2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Piotrków Tryb.
Posts: 2,958
Likes (Received): 458

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I can only applaud the effort Polish SSC-members put in graphs and statistics like this!
thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by snipe65 View Post
Would it be possible to display the total km of finished roads ?
Here you go:

I. Existed roads:

Code:
Month      A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2              Together 2x2     Together
________________________________________________________________________________

01-2000       284         136          77                   420          497

01-2001       374         136          77                   510          587

01-2002       412         136          77                   548          625

01-2003       418         136          80                   554          634

01-2004       486         151          85                   637          722

01-2005       536         155          85                   691          776

01-2006       570         175         100                   745          845
05-2006       570         175         100                   745          845
09-2006       674         178         112                   852          964

01-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077
05-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077
09-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077

01-2008       765         233         150                   998         1148
05-2008       765         245         159                  1010         1169
09-2008       765         265         160                  1030         1190

01-2009       831         288         228                  1119         1347

Graphic by toonczyk (stan 12/2008):


motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black
________________________________


II. Roads U/C:


Code:
Month      A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2              Together 2x2     Together
________________________________________________________________________________

01-2000       142           0           0                   142          142

01-2001        59           0           3                    59           62

01-2002        38          15           5                    53           58

01-2003       135          31           5                   166          171

01-2004        86          38           3                   124          127

01-2005       208          61          36                   269          305

01-2006       262          68          54                   330          384
05-2006       262          94          92                   356          448
09-2006       148         112         111                   260          371

01-2007       154         112         101                   266          367
05-2007       174         115         122                   289          411
09-2007       174         123         123                   297          420

01-2008       168         173          90                   341          431
05-2008       168         213          81                   381          462
09-2008       249         211          93                   460          553

01-2009       208         217          26                   425          451

current       217         234          26                   451          477

Graphic by toonczyk:



motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black
________________________________

III. Roads completed in year:


Code:
Year         A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2             Together 2x2    Together
______________________________________________________________________________

2000           90           0           0                   90           90
2001           38           0           0                   38           38
2002            5           0           3                    5            8
2003           69          15           5                   84           89
2004           50           4           0                   54           54
2005           34          20          15                   54           69
2006          174          28          23                  202          225
2007           24          30          28                   54           82
2008           65          54          87                  119          206
2009*          87         105          16                  192          208
2010*          46         102           9                  148          157
2011*         189          27           0                  216          216
2012*         105           0           0                  105          105
2013*           0           0           0                    0            0
2014*          57           0           0                   57           57
* - planned completion (only roads which the build contracts are already signed)

Graphic toonczyk (03/2009):


motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black


________________________________

Last edited by bebe.2006; March 28th, 2009 at 02:16 AM.
bebe.2006 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 03:43 AM   #2311
karejeeta
tommy569
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 137
Likes (Received): 0

Przetargi na A2 Łódź-Warszawa ogłoszone

Przetargi na budowę autostrady A2 z Łodzi do Warszawy oraz na nadzór nad budową zostały ogłoszone w piątek, 27 marca, przez Generalną Dyrekcję Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad, zgodnie z harmonogramem przedstawionym 27 lutego, po zakończeniu negocjacji na budowę tej trasy w systemie Partnerstwa Publiczno-Prywatnego. Podpisanie umów przewidziane jest na wrzesień 2009 roku. Firmy mają na projekt i budowę 32 miesiące. Kierowcy będą mogli przejechać tym odcinkiem na Euro 2012.


Autostrada A2 z Łodzi do Warszawy (91 km) została podzielona na pięć odcinków. Znacząco zwiększy to konkurencyjność i możliwe jest uzyskanie niższej ceny. Dodatkowo, krótsze odcinki spowodują skrócenie czasu realizacji. Dla skoordynowania prac dla wszystkich odcinków wybrany zostanie jedna firma nadzorująca i projekt i budowę.

Odcinek Łódź-Warszawa, zgodnie z warunkami ogłoszonego w piątek przetargu, powstanie w systemie Projektuj i Buduj. System ten został wybrany przez GDDKiA jako najbardziej optymalny dla jak najszybszego uruchomienia tego odcinka A2. W systemie Projektuj i Buduj wybierany jest jeden wykonawca tak do projektu budowlanego, jak i do budowy. Pozwala to zaoszczędzić czas na wyłanianie wykonawcy w odrębnym przetargu, a także eliminuje potencjalne konflikty podczas budowy między projektantem a wykonawcą.

27.03.2009

In English
Tenders A2 Lodz-Warsaw announced

Tenders for the construction of Highway A2 from Lodz to Warsaw and to the supervision of the construction was announced on Friday, 27 March, by the General Directorate for National Roads and Highways, in accordance with the timetable set out Feb. 27, after the conclusion of the negotiations for the construction of this route in the Public-Private Partnership . The signing of contracts is provided in September 2009. Companies have the design and construction of 32 months. Drivers will be able to pass this section on the Euro 2012.


Highway A2 from Lodz to Warsaw (91 km) was divided into five sections. Significantly improve the competitiveness and it is possible to obtain lower prices. In addition, shorter segments will result in shorter execution time. To coordinate the work of all sections of the selected company will be a supervisor and the design and construction.

Episode Lodz-Warsaw, in accordance with the terms of the tender announced on Friday, the formation in the Design and Build. This system was chosen by GDDKiA as best as soon as possible to run a section of A2. In the Design and Build is selected as a contractor for a construction project, as well as to construction. This helps to save time for the emergence of the contractor in a separate tender, and also eliminates potential conflicts during construction between the designer and the contractor.

27.03.2009

Source www.gddkia.gov.pl for Polish
Souce google translate for English
karejeeta no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 04:33 AM   #2312
E2rdEm
prostownik
 
E2rdEm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wawa, Puławy
Posts: 3,117
Likes (Received): 1201

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Does it mean the construction of the A2 is legally secured and cannot delayed any further?
You want the risk assesment here?

Well, let's try:
  1. The bidding process. We are at the very beginning of it. There are 6 bids, independent of each other. That means that there should be 6 independent groups of people at the road authorities to decide the winner. I'm not sure if they have enough people, so they may assign the same people - at least in part - to more than one bid. These people won't have enough time, the bidding can take longer because of that.
  2. There is currently a fashion in such large bids in Poland to ask numerous questions ("the specifications are not clear if... please explain..."). By asking questions, the bidders want to delay the process to better prepare the final offer, or to have time to finish other contracts before they can take this one, etc. etc. But - the road authorities assumed that they will announce the winner in September, so they seem to have taken those two obstacles into account.
  3. But, there's also a fashion to protest after the winner is announced. And go to court with it. Courts in Poland are veeeeeeeeeeeeery slow. The simplest cases take months. The government has very limited influence - they can only reason with the judges to speed it up - the courts are independent, about the date of the trial too. Anyway, even if the protest will be processed by the courts at the fastest pace, we'll have a few months delay.
  4. Then there's time do design the thing. And make the final environmental-impact-study. And with these papers - get the "approval of a road project" from the regional (IIRC) authorities (not the road authority). This decision may also be protested against, with another possible court case...
  5. Meanwhile, the archeologists will dig the ground. I think they are doing that already, so they may even finish before the construction starts - maybe that won't be a problem.
  6. The same about acquiring the land - it is mostly done already. Lately the road authority was proud to announce that they reached an agreement with one of the landowners near Warsaw, who was blocking the official decisions by appealing them to the court. The decisions (for example, environmental decision) corncerning ~70 km of a motorway, he only occupies ~100m of it - yet he has right to block it all... Anyway, he won't do that anymore. Let's hope noone else tries to...
  7. Then there's time to build. It may also get delayed. Lately built roads are 50/50 about being completed on time. There are conctracts completed according to schedule, but there are also such embarrasing cases as A4 to Zgorzelec. And in fact it's only a good will of the builder to complete on time. The road authorities rarely even try to harm the builders with the penalties...

So, here you go, a word from a pessimist.

The tender specification gives 32 months from the moment the contract is signed to complete the road. It also says road must be open (even if temporarily) for the EURO championships. If the contract is signed in September - it means the deadline is 04/2012. If it is signed 12/2009 - the deadline is 07/2012, then they'll have to open the road in June even if the crashbarriers won't be installed.

So let's hope for now, that all 6 contracts will be signed in September.
__________________
II etap obwodnicy Puław (S12) - projekt jest gotowy od 12/2008. Nowa DŚU wydana w 10/2009.
Nic, tylko budować! Znajdźcie pieniądze!
E2rdEm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #2313
snipe65
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
Likes (Received): 0

Thank You bebe.2006 !!!
snipe65 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 02:02 AM   #2314
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by msz2 View Post
S-7 form Kielce to Skarzysko (earth works):


OMG, this is like Trans-Texas Corridor again.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 02:12 AM   #2315
Majestic
Systematic Chaos
 
Majestic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: POZnan* (PL)
Posts: 805
Likes (Received): 26

You think this looks massive? Check this: (S6 Słupsk bypass)

Quote:
Originally Posted by as drogowy View Post
Hir aj goł egen jak mawiają starożytni Bułgarzy, z fotorelacją mojego odcinka obwodnicy (proszę wytrwać do końca, gdyż albowiem momenty będą):

Zaczynamy od strony Głobina. W miejscu gdzie poprzednio stał biały dźwig dzisiaj możemy zaobserwować, że trwają prace nad palowaniem. Oj, trzeba będzie zajrzeć do dokumentacji, co to za cudo imienia Azji Tuhajbejowicza tam powstaje.


Wjazd na MOP - postępy symboliczne:


Trochę widoków krajoznawczych:




Trochę ziemi jeszcze do przewiezienia zostało:


Uwaga! Ktoś się kryje za drzewami:


Poważna sprawa - kradną nam górę. I to w biały dzień:

(podpowiedź dla obcokrajowców: wbrew pozorom nie są to górnicy, chociaż zajmują się górą)

Krótki test, który pokaże, czy jest w was jeszcze dziecko - macie ochotę udać się na te zwały żółtego piasku z wiaderkiem i łopatką?


Czas stanął w miejscu, czyli wiadukt nad Arciszewskiego:


A tam co się dzieje?


Ale nie tutaj, walec to żadna atrakcja:


O kurcze, most gotowy (no, prawie):




Wiosna idzie, czas rower wyciągnąć. A to oznaczać może tylko jedno - rozszerzenie teatru działań! Soł, stej tjund!
Majestic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 02:13 AM   #2316
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

I sometimes don't understand why they cut so much woods, I saw a similar path of destruction of 60 meters wide for a simple 7 meter wide road in NL too.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #2317
Majestic
Systematic Chaos
 
Majestic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: POZnan* (PL)
Posts: 805
Likes (Received): 26

It makes me wonder too. The woods they are cutting through there are very beautiful ones. I used to take walks there when I was younger.
Majestic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 02:37 AM   #2318
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Second NAFTA Highway, man.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 10:46 AM   #2319
Timon91
Error
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: just outside Germany
Posts: 5,783
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I sometimes don't understand why they cut so much woods, I saw a similar path of destruction of 60 meters wide for a simple 7 meter wide road in NL too.
Safety is the only reason I can think of. Still it looks kinda pointless.
__________________
My Flickr account.
Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
Timon91 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #2320
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,511
Likes (Received): 19147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon91 View Post
Safety is the only reason I can think of. Still it looks kinda pointless.
Aren't they building roads for farm equipment alongside the main exspressway?
Then you have to add space for fencing, drainage etc.
geogregor está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autostrady, expressways, highway, motorways, polish motorways, polish roads, polskie drogi, road

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium