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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #4281
Hetman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
The resemblance to St. Vith-Nord is striking, I'll give you that.

There is no excuse for this because it's not as if the GDDKiA does not have much to choose from.
Seems that Belgian highways are the benchmark for GDDKiA visioners (density, infrastructure etc.)
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Old February 20th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #4282
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Seems that Belgian highways are the benchmark for GDDKiA visioners (density, infrastructure etc.)
I may hope not... quality and signage is considered one of the worst in Europe. (although they are moving forward).
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Old February 20th, 2010, 01:50 PM   #4283
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Originally Posted by MAG View Post


Jakub - może lepiej się tym nie chwalić?
Too late
2 recent posts (Belgian junction) and DW701 and I am put in sort of shame.
Anyway, we have that, unfortunately.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:04 PM   #4284
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I have a somewhat more technical question.

Were roads in the 1980's and 1990's built without a foundation? Because I have seen pictures of a cross-section that showed a layer of greatly rutted asphalt of 10 cm, and a layer of white sand underneath it. If this was the usual way of construction at that time, it's not a surprise that so many roads were in such bad conditions around the time of accession to the European Union. (Poland was assessed as having the worst road conditions of the then-new EU members)
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:23 PM   #4285
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The old polish roads were made like this (in cities mostly): on the old prewar (I mean II WW) paved road 10-15 cm layer of asphalt was put (poor quality asphalt) and that's about it...



The new roads (which hadn't existed before) built in late 70's and late 80's didn't have good foundations.
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Old February 20th, 2010, 03:34 PM   #4286
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That's a shame, I'm going to write to GDDKIA :P
I drive this road a couple of times a year. I must tell you no rehabilitation has been done for last 5 years.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:46 PM   #4287
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DK77 - bridge over Vistula river under construction:

















[/QUOTE]
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 10:52 AM   #4288
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 12:03 PM   #4289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I have a somewhat more technical question.
Were roads in the 1980's and 1990's built without a foundation? Because I have seen pictures of a cross-section that showed a layer of greatly rutted asphalt of 10 cm, and a layer of white sand underneath it.
Difficult to say, I suspect not because building roads without a foundation is a bit like building houses without foundations. You'd have to show me the picture/spec that you referred to above. I suspect the spec you mentioned was probably for a local estate road, rather than a road that was meant to carry substantial traffic volume.

The (very minor) road where I live has a granite bed (!) and is tough as nails despite some 20k+ vehicles passing through it every day. But this is no doubt an exception. As Jakub's pictures show, there are other places in the country where the road condition has seen better days.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Poland was assessed as having the worst road conditions of the then-new EU members.
Yes, we are only too aware of this and hang our heads down in shame.
The main reason for this is a series of unfortunate historical events, which are better left unspoken on an international forum.


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Last edited by MAG; November 26th, 2010 at 07:22 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 01:13 PM   #4290
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 02:06 PM   #4291
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Poland will have a really dense network of motorways in the future, nice.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 03:10 PM   #4292
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From the Dutch topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
Dank u wel!

Is there anything more in-depth and technical?
I am looking for this level of detail.
Is this the official guidelines for traffic signs in Poland? Will this be implemented? It's so much better than the current signage; better font, arrows, control cities, colors, etc.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 03:29 PM   #4293
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From the Dutch topic:



Is this the official guidelines for traffic signs in Poland? Will this be implemented? It's so much better than the current signage; better font, arrows, control cities, colors, etc.
No, this is not the official spec. Will it be implemented? Maybe.

Currently we are battling against knee-deep political opposition, you know: 'what we've got now is good enough' kind of crap.

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Old February 22nd, 2010, 10:09 PM   #4294
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The signage looks neat. I would like to bring up the following subject. Should foreign city names be written in Polish or in mother leanguage? I am specifically paying attention at the name Dresden. Should it remain in German or be changed into Polish name Drezno??? For example, in Germany near the Polish border direction Wrocław signage says Breslau. Yet again direction Warszawa it says Warshau. I'm looking for your opinions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
No, this is not the official spec. Will it be implemented? Maybe.

Currently we are battling against knee-deep political opposition, you know: 'what we've got now is good enough' kind of crap.

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Old February 22nd, 2010, 10:31 PM   #4295
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Definitely in the original language. So signs should read "Dresden", "Wien", "Warszawa" and "L'viv". I do think Cyrillic could be transliterated, but not translated (Lwów).

1) Basically because you need to know that name anyway to continue your journey in the other country.
2) It confuses drivers who do not speak Polish as their native language, and this is increasingly common in Europe. I doubt if many Poles know what Bécs, Rijsel, Nimwegen, Fiume or Kassa means without looking it up.

You can see Germany is already shifting towards the original names, signs with Arnheim and Stettin are gradually being replaced by Arnhem and Szczecin (Stettin).

I don't think dual signing (both endonym and exonym) works. It's only clutter to the signs without having a significant added value. Signs need to be as clear as possible. Less is more.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 10:33 PM   #4296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG View Post
Difficult to say, I suspect not because building roads without a foundation is a bit like building houses without foundations. You'd have to show me the picture/spec that you referred to above. I suspect the spec you mentioned was probably for a local estate road, rather than a road that was meant to carry substantial traffic volume.
Don't know about you, but I did hear of "putting asphalt directly on the ground in the 70's" (for propaganda effects), but until now I'm not sure whether that was an exaggeration, or whether things like that really happen.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 10:45 PM   #4297
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Cute pavement on DK1 near Włocławek:

This road will be renovated between 2-2010 and ~6-2011.











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Old February 23rd, 2010, 12:34 AM   #4298
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Cute pavement on DK1 near Włocławek:

This road will be renovated between 2-2010 and ~6-2011.
And then, the pavement will become as smooth and durable as it is on all newly paved Polish roads.
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Old February 23rd, 2010, 01:27 AM   #4299
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Check the price spread on these tender offers:

A4 highway between Tarnow and Rzeszow

(W. Krzyż)-W. Dębica Pustynia - length 34km - lowest offer 1.34 bln zl, highest offer 2.39 bln zl - difference between lowest and highest - over 1 bilion zl (!!!)


W. Dębica Pustynia – W.Rzeszów Zachód - length 33km- lowest offer 1.73 bln zl, highest offer 2.56 bln zl - difference between highest and lowest - over 800 million zl (!!!)
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Old February 23rd, 2010, 01:28 AM   #4300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigalowski View Post
... Should foreign city names be written in Polish or in mother leanguage? ...
Funny you should mention that because just a few days ago we had a similar discussion on the Polish forum.
The rules are set out in the Vienna Convention, as follows:

Article 14.2. The inscription of words on informative signs (ii) of Article 5, paragraph 1 (c), in countries not using the Latin alphabet shall be both in the national language and in the form of a transliteration into the Latin alphabet reproducing as closely as possible the pronunciation in the national language.

and

Annex 1
Section G - DIRECTION, POSITION OR INDICATION SIGNS
5. On signs G, 1; G, 4; G, 5; G, 6 and G, 10 it is recommended to show place names in the language of the country, or subdivision thereof, where the localities referred to are situated.


In short, we are obliged to use the original language unless the local name is very different (e.g. Breslau v Wrocław), where both versions should be used. Strict interpretation of the rules would require the use of Cyrillic script first, then the Latin transliteration, but in practice most countries use the transliterated name only written in Latin script.


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