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Old May 4th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #4541
piotr71
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DK1 Łysomice - Świecie
[
Looks like someone has visited the Netherlands. I really love carriageways being separated in this way. It makes me feel safe.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 12:09 PM   #4542
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What's the latest on the renovation of A18?
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Old May 5th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #4543
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What's the latest on the renovation of A18?
According to the high-level overview (STANDiA, as of 30 Apr) the project has completed the preparation of new evidence in support of the environmental impact of renovating the south carriageway. The work was due in on 30 Apr so it is now being disseminated to and considered by people with the right competencies. I do not want to speculate when actual building work might begin. Suffice it to say that is unlikely to be this year.

Just to remind you, the A18 cuts through a dense forest and hence through many areas of outstanding natural beauty endorsed by Natura 2000. The road also disrupts natural migration paths of wild animals, including the wolf, and so it is not surprising that the green lobby want many ecoducts to be built – we are talking one every 2-3 km – as a shining example to the rest of EU of how things should be done.

There is understandable friction between the greens and the pragmatists on this issue. The south carriageway is in a very bad way and needs urgent repair but until a proper consultation has taken place, not a single inch of this road will be touched by anyone.

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Old May 5th, 2010, 01:49 PM   #4544
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So it looks like the main concern is not the renovation itself, but the motorway status? Anyway, it's quite pathetic. Is there any chance they can "enforce" so many ecoducts? Is there a law that says it's mandatory to have ecoducts every 3 km?

Building a few ecoducts may not be a bad idea, but 20 or 30 of them looks like severe overkill.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 02:10 PM   #4545
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Is there a law that says it's mandatory to have ecoducts every 3 km?
It is not so much the Law as the specificity of this area and its dense forests, which act as a natural habitat for many animals. When the road was first built in the 1930s, nobody gave a hoot about the environment - I daresay the word did not even exist. Today, we live in a more balanced and wiser world and need to consider how we interact with Nature.

On a practical level, there is a lot of large animals living in the forests around the A18. Having a collision with a deer or even a boar while driving at 130 km/h can only end up in tears. So the greens are right in pointing this out that there is a pragmatic need to build ecoducts. But I am not convinced that the level of extra investment in ecoducts, as demanded by the greens, is fully justified.

The assessment document is out. If I get hold of a copy I'll publish a short digest of its main points.

Finally, the EU, who are part-funding the project, demand that a proper environmental impact assessment is carried out. So the GDDKiA has no leg to stand on and must comply.


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Building a few ecoducts may not be a bad idea, but 20 or 30 of them looks like severe overkill.
I hope that a common-sense compromise will be found. Time will tell.


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Old May 5th, 2010, 02:47 PM   #4546
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In my point of view, ecoduts or bridges combined with fences and walls are a proper solution, and not so expensive!

In southern Moravia authorities are planing to build and new stretch of R55 expressway right next to existing railway that ist cutting through Natura 2000 (SPA - birds). Current plans include 7 km of tunnels in a totally flat land where no man lives... That's a real toughie. ... BTW, how many ecoduts are there planned? On how many kms?
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Old May 5th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #4547
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... BTW, how many ecoduts are there planned? On how many kms?
Don't know about plans but the submission was for 30 ecoducts (overpasses), 100 m each, spread over the ~71 km. This is an unconfirmed report and potentially unreliable. I do not know how many underpasses/tunnels were requested for reptiles, small mammals etc.

So the current battle is about how green this project should be. The road must be re-built responsibly but as you can see it is not so easy to decide where the middle ground lies with respect to being green, on the one hand, and being pragmatic about being green, on the other hand, if you get my drift.


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Old May 5th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #4548
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Phew, 30, that's really too much...

As I see, A18 crosses Natura 2000 area in approx. 35 kms, that's probably the main issue... Is there som kind of protected area also western from Iłowa?
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:02 PM   #4549
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... As I see, A18 crosses Natura 2000 area in approx. 35 kms, that's probably the main issue... Is there som kind of protected area also western from Iłowa?
Yeah, that's the main clash but there are smaller NATURA 2000 areas west of Iłowa as well.

Here is a link, courtesy of Siskom (click), that illustrates some of the issues. Of course, this is a multi-faceted and complex problem and there are other issues to consider such as migration paths, noise, pollution and the sheer barrier that a fully enclosed road presents to animals.

Until recently, DK18 was not fenced off so animals could freely wander across the single carriageway. Now that a motorway is being considered, which will be fully fenced off, the barrier aspect must be dealt with using the guiding principle that what you take away you must put back (eco balance preservation).


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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #4550
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Of course, I agree with this... I'm writing a thesis on topic of legal aspects of environmental protection during planing and construction of roads and other types of "ways" in the Czech rep. and I'm dealing with many of these topics like EIA, fragmentation evaluation etc etc... It's good to know something about other countries in this context.. thanks...
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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #4551
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These environmentalist mafia always gets carried away... you give them one finger - they want the whole hand - at the taxpayers behalf.

I mean, it's not like there are plans for dozens of new motorways through Lubuskie. I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.

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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #4552
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... I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.
.....

I have to stress, the figure of 30 is second-hand info, though from a guy who is normally very reliable.



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Old May 5th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #4553
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"Gniazdo kaczki krzyżówki, wysiadującej 10 jaj, wywołało spore zamieszanie przy budowie ważnego fragmentu autostrady A1 w żorskiej dzielnicy Rowień. Ptak wywołał na budowie alarm, bo uwił sobie domek w bezpośrednim sąsiedztwie budowanego właśnie, długiego na 300 metrów mostu. Na miejsce wezwano służby ekologiczne, które nie pozwoliły ruszać gniazda. Wszyscy z zapartym tchem czekają, aż pisklaki się wyklują.

Robotnicy pilnują teraz kaczki jak oka w głowie. - Nadzór ekologiczny kazał nam się poruszać na paluszkach, omijać teren z daleka. Tylko raz dziennie możemy doglądać gniazda, by sprawdzać, czy wykluwają się małe. Takie procedury. Chodzi o to, by nie wystraszyć kaczki, by nie opuściła małych - doniósł nam jeden z pracujących w pobliżu budowlańców.

W firmie żartują, że to kaczka dziwaczka, bo uwiła sobie gniazdo akurat na samym środku budowy olbrzymiego mostu, w pobliżu pracuje ciężki sprzęt, a roboty można było kontynuować po zabezpieczeniu gniazda. "





A1 construction - a duck sitting on 10 eggs in a nest caused an alarm effectively stopping construction of a 300m long bridge. Environmental services immediately ordered the construction to be halted and everyone "holding their breath" is now avaiting the eggs to hatch so that the construction can resume Eco oversight people told the workers to "walk on their toes" as to not to disturb the duck.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #4554
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These environmentalist mafia always gets carried away... you give them one finger - they want the whole hand - at the taxpayers behalf.

I mean, it's not like there are plans for dozens of new motorways through Lubuskie. I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.
Yeah, protecting animals and environment is now very "modern" esp. for young people, that are not experienced enough to see how far they can "go" with their requirements.

Ecologists shall point out let's say max 10 main corridors (i.e. one each 5-10 km) where animals tend to cross the road and there should be possibility to build an ecoduct or a migration bridge for the roadway bridging such corridor. I guess many of you have seen pics from Prague Ring road construction and those 3 neighbouring ecoducts, there's a "funny" story behind that - someone from envirnomental department came to the person responsible for the stretch and demanded those ecoducts, she was busy with sth else and just said "add whatever you want to that project just don't make problems"
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Old May 5th, 2010, 06:23 PM   #4555
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Eco duct every 1 km.? Damn Polish greens are getting carried away.
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #4556
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You know... give them finger (Rospuda Valley) they will eat whole arm. It's sad but true. Hey, protect environment is important but we've got brains! After decades of destroying environment now greens try to...? Do what?
If you don't know what is going on, it's about money, as we say in Poland
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Old May 5th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #4557
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S11 - western bypass of Poznan

Photos by Carte

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Kilka zdjęć z okolicy przyszłego węzła z A2:








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Old May 5th, 2010, 11:05 PM   #4558
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Carte, as always, amaizing photos!
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Old May 6th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #4559
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These new Polish road constructions are music to my eyes. Beautiful stuff.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #4560
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You know... give them finger (Rospuda Valley) they will eat whole arm. It's sad but true. Hey, protect environment is important but we've got brains! After decades of destroying environment now greens try to...? Do what?
If you don't know what is going on, it's about money, as we say in Poland
Yes, Rospuda valley was a huge loss to people with common sense. Funnily enough those people are now receiving various awards and are portrayed as heroes all over the press just because they have saved a tiny bit of grass. I guess its quite a good business being a parasite.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ssful-activist
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