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Old August 2nd, 2010, 12:06 AM   #4901
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4.16/4.17 Sandriders in the night ?
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 01:54 AM   #4902
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Check this!

http://www.panoramy-wirtualne.pl/bie...ca_201007.html


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Old August 3rd, 2010, 02:29 AM   #4903
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Simply amazing
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 04:21 AM   #4904
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That was great what a beautiful town and what seems like a quality motorway being built.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 12:14 PM   #4905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
That was great what a beautiful town and what seems like a quality motorway being built.
I think it's fair to thank the Dutch and Germans, in that order. It's ¾ their money.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #4906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
I think it's fair to thank the Dutch and Germans, in that order. It's ¾ their money.
We are paying a lot of money to EU budget, so it's our money basicaly. The only difference is that now we are sure that all these money must be used for motorways construction and will not be misplaced somewhere else. German's should be grateful, cause their companies have something to do thank to our motorway boom.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 12:44 PM   #4907
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EU net receivers or net payers:


It's indeed true half of the European construction sector profits from the construction boom in Poland. I have to add though that foreign construction companies for motorway construction in the Netherlands are non-existent.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:18 PM   #4908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsawbynight View Post
We are paying a lot of money to EU budget, so it's our money basicaly.
I can't imagine where this information comes from, but just in case, I suggest that you should not read Nasz Dziennik or the like.

Poland is a net recipient of EU funds, and nobody ever expected otherwise. See this post if in doubt: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4907
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #4909
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Luxembourg. And at my country, only a bit over 0.

And I liked those aerial views of autostrady and drogi ekspresowe U/C. In other countries we don't see images like those...
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Old August 5th, 2010, 01:26 PM   #4910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsawbynight View Post
We are paying a lot of money to EU budget, so it's our money basicaly. The only difference is that now we are sure that all these money must be used for motorways construction and will not be misplaced somewhere else. German's should be grateful, cause their companies have something to do thank to our motorway boom.
Whatever we are giving to the euro budget, we simply get much more. And whoever gets the contract still he's working for Polish infrastructure growth, though.And we should be grateful for this chance of development, I feel.

Also our companies grow together and get more and more experience for future. I guess they will need it to fight for future contracts after 2014 in Romania, Bulgaria and other beneficiary countries.


On the other hand you're right about boom due to Polish construction sites. But this gives us another warranty, that this policy would not be terminated so easely thanks to construction lobby, who's really kept above the surface due to investments in Poland nowadays.

Luxembourg wtf??

Last edited by seszele; August 5th, 2010 at 01:28 PM. Reason: wtf
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Old August 5th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #4911
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Don't know from where are those numbers, either year, or source. However, the structural picture is there. Neverthless, the per capita data, and historical comparisons are interesting too. Since this document shows data only by 2007 I think it lacks the last overview but it should stated, that Poland receives yearly at maximum hardly one third of what Spain had received just few years ago. The countries are more or less comparable.

http://www.cer.org.uk/pdf/briefing_budget_begg.pdf

Per capita comparisons are then availabe at page 9.



Anyway, the EU is not about "net contributions" and I am not talking politics, but economics. The economic effects of single market outnumber these contributions x fold. It would be stupid to see e.g. only that NL contributes per capita the most and not see that it benefits hugely on reexporting and capital gains. Similar goes for Germany. That is the magic of single huge market...


Let alone the political and sociological benefits, that could have been measured in economic terms, however mostly aren't.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #4912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
I can't imagine where this information comes from, but just in case, I suggest that you should not read Nasz Dziennik or the like.

Poland is a net recipient of EU funds, and nobody ever expected otherwise. See this post if in doubt: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4907
Really?

http://gospodarka.dziennik.pl/news/a...a-do-unii.html

It's not much better than in 2008 now. But at least we are sure that the new roads will finally be built.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 08:01 PM   #4913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB View Post
I think it's fair to thank the Dutch and Germans, in that order. It's ¾ their money.
... and 100% their export goods and services when emerging markets open up to them and become stable.

The Germans and the Dutch, inter alia, are smart and they are simply investing in their own future.
It is in their own long-term political and economic interest to have strong, wealthy, competitive, open, accessible, modern, predictable and stable neighbours, which is what Poland aspires to become.


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Old August 5th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #4914
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True.

Also, to have net receivers, there have to be net contributors. It's just that simple. The question though, should be if some countries are paying more than is reasonable. For example there are several EU countries that have a higher GDP per capita than the Netherlands, yet the Netherlands is the top contributor to EU.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:30 PM   #4915
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45 % of eu budget is spent on agriculture secondly on infrastructure. i guess that you have small farmer population and already built roads, so you won't be eligible to take more money.
the strange thing is that we paid to the eu since 2004 around 24 billion EUR for which 3000 of motorways could be build considering that average price for 1 km is around 7.8 mln EUR. and what we have ?!
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Old August 5th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #4916
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Well, those 24 billion is largely for agriculture. Maybe 20% of that is actually spend on road construction.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 10:27 PM   #4917
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Luxembourg only gets so much because a lot of the EU civil service is there - EU money goes to Luxembourg to pay for the running of the EU.
Quote:
The Germans and the Dutch, inter alia, are smart and they are simply investing in their own future.
I assume, then they get better secondary benefits than the UK, which would be better off, for investing in it's own future, out of the EU and able to make it's own trade agreements - free trade with the EU is a given - the other 26 EU countries need us buying their stuff far more than the reverse and the EFTA countries have free trade without the baggage of stuff like CAP and CFT (which killed the UK fishing industry, and North Sea Cod - seemingly because it's not Spanish!) so there's precedence.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 10:57 PM   #4918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Don't know from where are those numbers, either year, or source. However, the structural picture is there. Neverthless, the per capita data, and historical comparisons are interesting too. Since this document shows data only by 2007 I think it lacks the last overview but it should stated, that Poland receives yearly at maximum hardly one third of what Spain had received just few years ago. The countries are more or less comparable.

http://www.cer.org.uk/pdf/briefing_budget_begg.pdf

Per capita comparisons are then availabe at page 9.



Anyway, the EU is not about "net contributions" and I am not talking politics, but economics. The economic effects of single market outnumber these contributions x fold. It would be stupid to see e.g. only that NL contributes per capita the most and not see that it benefits hugely on reexporting and capital gains. Similar goes for Germany. That is the magic of single huge market...


Let alone the political and sociological benefits, that could have been measured in economic terms, however mostly aren't.
I just gave a wrong link. This was the paper I had in mind.

http://www.quaker.org/qcea/briefings...re%20final.pdf


And since we are at the forum devoted to Polish side of the EU (however roads) I recomend yet this: http://www.money-go-round.eu/Country.aspx?id=PL

easy to compare the net payments from and to the EU over the EU countries. Please note that the infrastracture projects are paid from cohesion funds or investment bank, at least to my knowledge.

Last edited by Surel; August 5th, 2010 at 11:04 PM.
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Old August 8th, 2010, 09:51 PM   #4919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Luxembourg only gets so much because a lot of the EU civil service is there - EU money goes to Luxembourg to pay for the running of the EU.
It is bit OT but I can't resists to point out, that considering the fact, that Luxemburg is considered a kind of tax heaven it seems that EU bureaucrats
finded a cosy way to avoid taxation ;-)
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Old August 10th, 2010, 07:19 AM   #4920
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night ride in Warsaw, watch in HD

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