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Old October 11th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #5081
GrimFadango
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This might be usefull:

Map by IgorSel showing all of grade-separated roads in Poland (except the lowest label of the legend, with is collisional - "droga krajowa kolizyjna".

You can see what is happening with S61 for now.



A lot of info can be found here - http://siskom.waw.pl/s61.htm. This site is in Polish, but every part of the road with a variant chosen has enviromental decision granted.

Feel free to ask in English or Polish here - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=984828.

Data about current daily traffic and expected in 2015/2020 can be found here - http://www.siskom.waw.pl/nauka-gpr.htm

You can find a map on that site, just click the button labelled with a date. Numbers for daily traffic are only for one direction, so you'll have to double them if you want to compare with eventual results from other countries. If I remember right, expressway or "droga ruchu przyspieszonego" (like DTŚ in Silesia) should be bulit if traffic riches around 16k, but it's not a general rule. Siskom site provides a lot of interesting stuff, but only in Polish tho. If you wan't to know something specific and google translate won't give a proper answer, feel free to ask

Edit:

First page of FPW thread about S61 gives general info about each section's current status:

1. Budzisko (PL/LT) - Suwałki: konsultacje społeczne - public consultation
2. Obwodnica Suwałk: konsultacje społeczne - public consultation
3. Suwałki - Raczki (obwodnica Augustowa): DŚU, przetarg ZiZ - enviromental decision granted, tender for "project and bulid" (orange on a map above)
4. Raczki - Ełk: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
5. Obwodnica Ełku: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
6. Ełk - Szczuczyn: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
7. Obwodnica Szczuczyna: DŚU, przetarg na projekt budowlany - enviromental decision granted, tender for construction project (blue)
8. Szczuczyn-Stawiski: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
9. Obwodnica Stawisk: DŚU, przetarg na projekt budowlany - enviromental decision granted, tender for construction project (blue)
10. Stawiski - Łomża: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
11. Obwodnica Łomży: opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision
12. Łomża- Ostrów Mazowiecka (S8): opracowanie materiałów do DŚU - developing materials needed for enviromental decision

From what I understand:
public conslutation - a procedure run for locals, they dicuss about variants with an investor, claim specific solutions etc.
material development - legal stuff run by clerks, paperworks etc.

Dunno if specific names are correct, but I hope you'll get the general idea. My observations result that heaving an enviromental decision granted is 40-50% of whole stuff done, especially for a region with gets some special care from green people
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Last edited by GrimFadango; October 12th, 2010 at 12:15 AM.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 01:32 AM   #5082
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I made this a few minutes ago. Sorry for its low quality, but it displays a construction map for A and S routes throughout Poland between April to October this year alone. A lot still needs to be done, but as you can see, construction is quickening

And yes, I know I spelled "construction" wrong. Ooops.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 02:35 AM   #5083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhookey View Post
I made this a few minutes ago. Sorry for its low quality, but it displays a construction map for A and S routes throughout Poland between April to October this year alone. A lot still needs to be done, but as you can see, construction is quickening

And yes, I know I spelled "construction" wrong. Ooops.
"Dieses Video enthält Content von UMG. Es ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar."
"This video contains content of UMG. It's not available in your country."
Do it again - without any music!

Damn censorship!
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Old October 12th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #5084
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GrimFadango: thanks, very helpful.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #5085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABRob View Post
"Dieses Video enthält Content von UMG. Es ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar."
"This video contains content of UMG. It's not available in your country."
Do it again - without any music!

Damn censorship!
Germany is the only country in Europe that blocks so many videos.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 11:17 AM   #5086
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What? I can't believe that they blocked a quick 45 second video I made because of a little music. Sometimes I really don't understand Germany...

Okay, before I completely go off-topic, here's the video again, complete without any music.

This map compiles construction maps from the last 6 months together, allowing you to see the spread of planning and construction.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 11:38 AM   #5087
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S-7 under construction, section Skarzysko - Kielce North Interchange (by Orcio from Polish subforum):



kolejne foty w stronę Skarżyska i węzła Zalezianka


tablica


bramownica


pas włączania z węzła Zalezianka staje się chyba pasem ruchu powlnego pod górę






w stronę Kielc


panorama z wiaduktu w Zaleziance (WD11) w stronę Skarżyska


zoom


z WD11 w stronę Kielc


na wiadukcie w stronę starej siódemki
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Old October 12th, 2010, 11:39 AM   #5088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimFadango View Post
If you wan't to know something specific and google translate won't give a proper answer, feel free to ask
It's more an opinion that a question, but I still find useless make distinction between motorways (A) and 2x2 expressways (S). I know that some Polish expressways have only one lane per direction (like in Austria), so I would maybe use the "S" only for these.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 01:11 PM   #5089
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Motorways lane width is 3.75m wheras for expresways this value is 3.5m, besides there are a lot of differences in geometric parameters like e.g. radiuses of vertical and horizontal arches, values of slopes.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 02:25 PM   #5090
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The main reason to distinquish expressways from motorways was junction density. Expressways were supposed to link highly urbanized areas like GOP, Tricity, probably inter-urban motorways.

I don't know the exact story behind expressways becoming intercity highways, but in the end S class roads are good solution because:
- the are cheaper to bulid
- so far they aren't tolled
- parameters are lower than motorway's (look at msz2 post), but road standard is higher than most autobans & motorways bulid in Europe.

If you look at any map made by Polish forumers here, you can see that expressways are more curvy and less stright-lined when compared to motorways, because law allowes wider radiuses etc. Practically, if you'd also obey speed limits, motorway in Poland is faster than an expressway. On the other hand, most drivers in Europe won't see the difference between autostrada and 2x2 droga ekspresowa.

In Poland, we have sort of the third kind of grade-separated road, called "droga główna ruchu przyspieszonego" - "main route for accelerated transportation", with basically is:

- a highway (can be 1x2 like an expressway, but new investments are mostly 2x2)
- grade separated (however it is not a definitive regulation)

GP Roads are simply labelled as DK (droga krajowa). Some of them became what expressways shoud be in the beginnig - a inter-urban highways like DTŚ in GOP. They also improve standard on DK roads (see the map above, eg. DK16, DK42, DK73). Those roads are a good solution for highway system development, because:

- mostly they are much cheaper to bulid than expressways
- they can be easily upgraded to expressways (money issue)
- (expressways can be also upgraded into motorways, and unfortunately some of them will eventualy end up as a motorway, like S7 Warszawa - Kraków).

We need more improvments, like S19, S9 (or at least GP DK9 etc.), but honestly, Poland should also focus on railways, as their condition can be compared to Polish road system around 1989.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #5091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdhookey View Post
What? I can't believe that they blocked a quick 45 second video I made because of a little music. Sometimes I really don't understand Germany...

Okay, before I completely go off-topic, here's the video again, complete without any music.

This map compiles construction maps from the last 6 months together, allowing you to see the spread of planning and construction.
Wow, good planning and construction in Catalonia Poland .

BTW, is better classical music (Without ANY censorship) than no music at all.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #5092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Wow, good planning and construction in Catalonia Poland .

BTW, is better classical music (Without ANY censorship) than no music at all.
Hehehe, you read my mind. I was actually thinking about putting some classical music on this after having Kubrick's Barry Lyndon, having Schubert stuck in my head for the last few weeks. But sadly, I couldn't transfer the music over to my Windows Movie Maker. And also, Schubert was an Austrian, so perhaps Chopin is a bit more appropriate.

As a side note, does anyone know when the scheduled opening for the next segment of S3 will be? Or also if there are any pending environmental agreements for S10? There are bypasses around Toruń, Bydgoszcz, and Wyrzysk already, but nothing else apparent on any maps. This will all be done much later, right?
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Old October 12th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #5093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msz2 View Post
Motorways lane width is 3.75m wheras for expresways this value is 3.5m, besides there are a lot of differences in geometric parameters like e.g. radiuses of vertical and horizontal arches, values of slopes.
All points completely unnoticed by the regular driver... It looks like a motorway, it functions like a motorway, but it isn't one technically.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #5094
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"Chris de Zwolle" () is right except one thing. I believe the road width is something a driver can notice, specially if you do more than 100 kph
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Old October 12th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #5095
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I personally noticed the differences between S1 and A4 in PL or D1 and R46 & R35 in CZ. The motorways felt a lot wider and safer.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 08:51 PM   #5096
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I doubt that if you show someone a picture of a road, and they have to guess if the lanes are 3.5 or 3.75 m wide, they wouldn't know. Something that is maybe even more important is the general alignment, number of exits and the width of the inside and outside shoulders.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #5097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleetz View Post
Would you know about daily traffic between Augustow and Biyalystok? Are there any plans on improving that road? Once that section of S8 is complete, all traffic from Lithuania will most likely be going via that road.
Check this out (unfortunately only in Polish):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...2&postcount=57

Briefly:
Map #1: North - East Region in 2005
Map #2: Predictions for Poland in 2020 (one way traffic in 24h cycle, for whole traffic need multiply x2)
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Old October 12th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #5098
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10.000 + is enough to justify a motorway on an economically important transit-route.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #5099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
10.000 + is enough to justify a motorway on an economically important transit-route.
According to GDDKiA representative who used to visit our polish board (unfortunately he doesn't anymore), in order to qualify for 2x2, a road needs a prognosed traffic volume of around 50.000, though I have no idea what is the time frame of such a prognosis. Construction of 1x2 expressway is considered economically viable with prognosed traffic of 17.000, 2x3 - 70.000.
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Old October 12th, 2010, 11:10 PM   #5100
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There are thousands of kilometer of motorways in Europe with traffic volumes below 40.000 vehicles per day, heck 75% of the French Autoroute network sees less than 50.000 vpd.

Besides that, the maximum volume of a 1x2 DK / DW-road is around 15.000 - 20.000 vehicles per day before you will start seeing significant congestion.
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