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Old October 24th, 2010, 04:19 PM   #5181
DammianBB
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Most important thing : that is toll - free way like in D, NL etc. Paying 0,25PLN for km in polish "A" is a crazy matter.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #5182
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Old October 25th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #5183
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great film about great expressway!

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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #5184
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Is this hard shoulder 1.5 m wide?

What is the speed limit btw?
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Last edited by seem; October 25th, 2010 at 10:10 PM.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #5185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
Is this hard shoulder 1.5 m wide?

What is the speed limit btw?
Hard shoulder is 2,5m wide, speed limit is 110 km/h.
Our dear parliament is planning to increase speed limits on expressways/motorways to 120/140 respectively. They already did it last year, but the changes were overruled by the Constitutional Tribunal. Lets hope they manage not to make any legislative errors this time.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:22 PM   #5186
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Well, on A6 hard shoulder seems like 2.5 but not on S3 for me.

You have just 110? I have never realised this. Poor you..
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:46 PM   #5187
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On A6 it's 3m AFAIK. Hard shoulders on S3 are 2,5 meters wide for sure, lanes are 3,5m.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #5188
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Ok. So, there are strict requirements for a dual carriageway to be classified for 110km/h and those that fall short are classified for 100km/h. Those that meet even stricter requirements are classified (motorways) for 130km/h. Is that right?
New build polish expressways, are something that in most European countries would be called motorways. You can't tell difference between them with "naked eye". Splitting them into two categories (A - motorway 130km/h, and S - expressway 110km/h) is controversial even for Poles. There is quite similar situation in Czech Republic, and Slovakia.

GP roads (100km/h) are much less standard but there are some examples (like north Kraków bypass) of roads that meet standard but they will not be marked as expressway. It's administration decision, even more confusing for us.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #5189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
expressways/motorways to 120/140 respectively. They already did it last year, but the changes were overruled by the Constitutional Tribunal. Lets hope they manage not to make any legislative errors this time.
After considering this idea surreal (especially those 140) I lost my interest in it. Will the parliament try again?
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #5190
seem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonczyk View Post
On A6 it's 3m AFAIK. Hard shoulders on S3 are 2,5 meters wide for sure, lanes are 3,5m.
Sorry. Well, our most important expressway has just 1.5 m wide hard shoulder, but this is just single one. I really don`t understand why we (Poland, CR, SR for example) have so many expressways.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #5191
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After considering this idea surreal (especially those 140) I lost my interest in it. Will the parliament try again?
You bet they will, remember we have en election year coming
http://www.senat.gov.pl/k7/dok/uch/063/989uch.pdf
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:45 PM   #5192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
Sorry. Well, our most important expressway has just 1.5 m wide hard shoulder, but this is just single one. I really don`t understand why we (Poland, CR, SR for example) have so many expressways.
In Poland, it's simple, expressways are free
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Old October 26th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #5193
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Paying 0,25PLN for km in polish "A" is a crazy matter.
The price is 1 euro per 16km. In my opinion, it's very reasonable. Someone has to pay for the roads. Why not those who use them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLH View Post
After considering this idea surreal (especially those 140) I lost my interest in it. Will the parliament try again?
The parliament will collect more road tax money if they raise the speed limit to 160km/h.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 12:47 AM   #5194
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The price is 1 euro per 16km. In my opinion, it's very reasonable. Someone has to pay for the roads. Why not those who use them?
The price has to be considered in relation to mean salaries. Our tolls are lower than in Italy or France, but when you take into account how much an average person earns in Poland and in France, it turns out we pay quite a lot. Average monthly income in Poland allows you to travel around 13k km (~0,25PLN/km). In France it's around 40k km (~0,07EUR/km)...
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Old October 26th, 2010, 09:49 AM   #5195
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The price has to be considered in relation to mean salaries.
I respectfully disagree. The price has to be considered in relation to the cost of building the roads. If some people can't afford to drive on them, they need to use transportation which is less expensive to build.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 09:57 AM   #5196
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Mule and cart.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 10:40 AM   #5197
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Mule and cart.
Does it mean you think cars should be free?
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Old October 26th, 2010, 10:42 AM   #5198
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No, but you can't build motorways where the tolls are too expensive for most of the population. You will have an empty motorway.

By the way, roads are often funded by other means than physical tolls.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #5199
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No, but you can't build motorways where the tolls are too expensive for most of the population. You will have an empty motorway.
If the motorway is not of sufficient value to its users to make the cost of construction worth paying for, then the motorway should not have been built.

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By the way, roads are often funded by other means than physical tolls.
Of course. I prefer to see roads paid for from fuel taxes than from general taxes. The beneficiaries of any product or service should be the ones who pay for it. I'm not very keen on the vignette system because it is inefficient. The Hungarian adaptation of the vignette system is better because one can pay online or via mobile phone and not have to worry about window stickers, the cost of middle-men, etc.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 12:52 PM   #5200
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Is it formal division in Poland?

Average Lane Width in Metres:
Country Poland:
Motorway: 3.75 m
Non-Motorway: 3.50 m
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